Evidence of meeting #2 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Ms. Church.
Thank you, Commissioner.
Mr. Thériault, over to you for six minutes.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Commissioner.
You have a very important role. I confess that I was not very familiar with the Access to Information Act. I read a lot about it, and while going through your report, I was stunned to see that not much has actually changed since 1983. When you're in opposition, you make a lot of requests and try to be all virtuous, but once you're in government, all of a sudden you take the same political stance on access to information. It's like a game that happens from one term to the next, from one government to the next. Unless I'm mistaken, that's what I understood. I wondered what was causing that, structurally, and what could be done to counter it.
Supposedly, in each department, there is a person responsible for the access to information issue and, unless I'm mistaken, that person reports to the minister. If that person reported to you, do you think that would already be an improvement?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Currently, Treasury Board is responsible for administering access to information, but each institution must have an operations unit that is in charge of implementing procedures to respond to access requests. I don't know if an independent institution could get access to the institutions' documents. It would be difficult.
To go back to the beginning of your question, I would say that the Access to Information Act was put in place to provide access to information, with certain limited exceptions. Since 1983, people have seen the act instead as a way to prevent access to information. Rather than asking what information should be given out, we ask what information should be protected or exempted. The application of the act did not allow it to achieve its ultimate goal.
Could having a central unit in the government allow for better administration of access to information? It's possible. Some provinces, such as Alberta, have a central unit, but they still have to check with the ministers responsible for the institutions. Ultimately, the decision rests with the head of the institution. I'm not sure it would change things. What needs to change is the culture within government. We need to adopt a culture of transparency that would make people realize that it's a good thing to share information and to ensure that political parties have the information they need to have a public debate. It's good for democracy. However, right now, I think people are afraid. They hide behind the Access to Information Act, and that's why there are limits and why it's not a perfect process.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
I want to make sure people understand. What you're telling us is that I could make a request to a department and that it could provide me with the information. Now we're being told to make a request under the Access to Information Act, when it's clear that it will take forever.
Is that correct?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
You could make a request, but it would be considered an informal request. In addition, people often apply the act anyway or find ways to withhold certain information. That is allowed, but in principle, once again, they should want to give you as much information as possible so that you can understand the decision, what has been put in place or the services in question. Often, they withdraw information, so you lose trust in the process and wonder why they're hiding that information.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
It's a culture of opacity, not a culture of transparency.
I'll go back to my original idea. I suppose people have to manage access to information. This legislation is a big deal. It is a law that, as you said, is essential for our democratic values. In today's world, it must enable us to combat misinformation and disinformation. This is important. It's a powerful law, after all, even though it may not be powerful enough for your taste. That will be the subject of another question later.
In short, I can't believe that departments don't have someone who handles these requests. If that person reports to a department or a minister, I don't think the culture changes much. That's why I thought that, if this person reported to the Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada, it would be a bit different. That would be a step that would bring us closer to the intent behind the Access to Information Act. In fact, when I have the floor again, we can discuss the changes that need to be made to the act.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Thériault, for staying within your speaking time.
Thank you, Commissioner.
Now we'll start the second round.
Mr. Cooper, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner, to be clear, your orders are legally binding. Is that correct?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
They are.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Now, you indicated—and your report outlines—that non-compliance on the part of government departments and institutions has been an issue. Therefore, those government departments and institutions that are not abiding by your orders are breaking the law, are they not?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Well, if they're challenging them in court, they're not.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
They're allowed to challenge them. But if they're not challenging them and they're not respecting them, they are breaking the law.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
There are government departments and institutions that have chosen to ignore your orders and therefore are breaking the law.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
It was an issue at the beginning. It seems to be less of an issue now. I think people have understood that we now have been using the mandamus application to force them into it.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
You indicated in an answer to Mr. Barrett that your office has been forced to bring not one, not two, but eight applications for writs of mandamus to force non-compliant, law-breaking departments and institutions to abide by the law.
Going to Federal Court is costly. It's resource-intensive, is it not?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
It is.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Can you provide a number or some description of the degree in terms of what your office has incurred from a resource standpoint in order to effectively drag government departments and institutions, kicking and screaming, to comply with your lawful order?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Currently, the act doesn't make me monitor these decisions and these orders. If somebody complains to my office that the order was missed, the only recourse I have currently is to make an application for mandamus, which we've done. We have increased our number of litigators. In terms of cost, it's salaries and time for us.
Sadly, in a sense it's time for the requesters as well, because so far, none of these mandamus applications made it to a hearing. The institutions always responded before we were able to get a judge to listen to our application. Basically, it's just been extra time for the institutions to respond.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
But it's fair to say that it is resource-intensive.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Yes.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Okay. Thank you for that.
On March 7, 2025, you wrote to the then president of the Treasury Board, Ginette Petitpas Taylor, expressing concern about this pattern of non-compliance. You requested that the minister issue “clear and unequivocal guidance to institutions subject to the Act [of] their legal...responsibilities, including complying with [your] orders”.
Did the minister issue such guidance?
September 15th, 2025 / 12:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
She did.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
She did. Okay. Thank you for that.
Is it fair to say that your office faces a persistent and severe funding shortfall?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Well, this year we were looking at a deficit of $600,000, based on the collective agreement that was negotiated and that we didn't receive money for. Because of the review that the government has launched, we've decided to absorb that deficit.
I can't say that we're in a situation where we don't have sufficient funds, but we are definitely at just enough. We're managing our resources as best we can, based on the current situation in the government.