Evidence of meeting #28 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Access to Information Policy and Performance, Treasury Board Secretariat
I would just like to point out that the commissioner also raised concerns about the rising costs of legal services. She had to go to court for litigation.
Since the President of the Treasury Board's role is to be responsible for the general administration of the act, we need to look at these aspects to see whether the commissioner could have means or tools to minimize costs or work with the departments more effectively to resolve these problems.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Is there a cost to democracy and its vitality in a society like ours in the era of disinformation? I think that Treasury Board should think about adding resources to comply with the conditions of the act. In my opinion, we are at a turning point.
If there is one thing that should be left alone, it is people's ability to learn about decisions made by the state through access to information. However, the commissioner tells us that a lot of methodologies are not being put into practice in the institutions concerned, including the duty to document decisions. I don't know what you think about that.
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Once again, I absolutely agree with you. In fact, that will be part of the consultations about the duty to document decisions.
Conservative
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Rochon, as the chief information officer of Canada, you are responsible for, among other things, setting government-wide policies on data and record-keeping, as well as the stewardship of information and data for the Government of Canada.
Is that an accurate description of your responsibilities?
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
It is an accurate description of some of my responsibilities, yes.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Those are some of your responsibilities. Okay.
Records about government business that have business value, including electronic records, are required to be preserved, pursuant to the Access to Information Act. Is that correct?
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
If they have business value, absolutely.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Okay.
In the face of the requirements under the Access to Information Act to preserve records relating to government business, which are in place to provide transparency and accountability in government, how did you think it was appropriate to set disappearing message functions on messaging apps, including Signal, WhatsApp and iMessage, on your government devices?
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'll answer by saying that setting record and information management rules for the various applications and platforms you have is good record and information management.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
You think that using automatic-delete features is good record management. Is that correct?
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Absolutely.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Do you think it enhances transparency? We'd be in a situation where it would be impossible to know whether communications that were deleted involved government business, were of business value or were merely personal conversations. I'm a bit astounded that you would say that's good record management, because it certainly doesn't seem to be in the spirit of ensuring compliance with the Access to Information Act.
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I guess I would disagree with your characterization. Let me explain. I have telephone conversations and I have meetings that occur every day, and there's a responsibility for me to capture something that is of business value. Similarly, in the technological world we live in now, as I mentioned earlier, some 80% to 85% of communications that are transiting, whether it be on LinkedIn, Signal, BBM, email, personal email or what have you—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
What steps are you taking on these apps that you're using, which have disappearing message features, to ensure that communications on matters of government business are retained?
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
They're the same measures that I'm taking when I'm having a conversation with someone over the phone or having dinner with someone. If a business decision related to government is happening, I have a duty to document that.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
However, you're still using automatic delete features. You continue to do that.
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Absolutely.
For example, just in the hour that I was waiting here, I think I may have received probably dozens of emails, texts and things that really have no business value whatsoever. That accumulates significantly over time, which can ultimately create a significant issue with regard to access to information.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
I certainly think it requires further inquiry, because it doesn't seem to me to be consistent with transparency and accountability. It seems to be the type of thing that actually erodes trust and confidence that the Access to Information Act is being complied with.
I'll go to the discussion paper that discussed clipping the wings of the Information Commissioner. Who directed that this report or discussion paper be undertaken, with regard to the view of taking away powers from the commissioner?
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I believe the document you're referring to is a draft document for a consultation. It absolutely does not say that it's clipping anybody's wings with regard to anything.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
It says very clearly that her order-making powers should be reviewed.
Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, it says that it would look into the order-making power, not to reduce it, not to eliminate it, but to, as we explained—
