Evidence of meeting #27 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Kershaw  Human Early Learning Partnership
Ian Patillo  Vice-President, External, Alma Mater Society of the University of British Columbia
Michael Clague  Executive Coordinator, British Columbia Alliance for Accountable Mental Health and Addictions Services
Jon Garson  Director, Policy Development and Communication, British Columbia Chamber of Commerce
Janet Cunningham  British Columbia Real Estate Association
Lynda Brown  President, New Media BC
Susan Whittaker  Chair, Planned Lifetime Advocacy Network
Robert Paddon  Vice-President, Corporate and Public Affairs, Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority
Jack Styan  Executive Director, Planned Lifetime Advocacy Network
Sharon Gregson  Chairperson, Coalition of Child Care Advocates of British Columbia
Helen Ward  President, Kids First Parent Association of Canada
Janette Pantry  Director, Vancouver Board of Trade
Verna Semotuk  Senior Planner, Policy and Planning Department, Greater Vancouver Regional District
David Levi  President and Chief Executive Officer, GrowthWorks Capital Ltd.
Kim Brandt  KAIROS - British Columbia
Werner Knittel  Vice-President, B.C. Division, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters - BC Division
Don Krusel  President and Chief Executive Officer, Prince Rupert Port Authority
Manny Jules  Chairman, Indian Taxation Advisory Board
Dave Park  Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

11:10 a.m.

Werner Knittel Vice-President, B.C. Division, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters - BC Division

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members. I appreciate the opportunity to address this group. With me is my colleague Colin Heartwell, who will be here to answer any questions afterwards.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak here in B.C., because I know you've heard from our colleague Dr. Jayson Myers during your hearings in Ottawa. I want to take this opportunity to make sure that the committee understands that the manufacturing sector is alive and well out here in British Columbia. It is the second largest sector of the economy here, only after finance and real estate—which I'm not sure any sector is ever going to catch up to, the way our housing prices are going.

Dr. Myers, I think, has given you the detailed presentations. I'm not going to go into all of the detail here. My colleagues from the Vancouver Board of Trade have outlined some of the numbers behind the reasons for some of the requests we're going to make as an association.

What I did want to do was impart to this committee the issues that are facing manufacturers here in this country right now, in particular here in British Columbia as well. Manufacturers right now are facing what's considered the perfect storm. We watched the Canadian dollar rise substantially, taking almost 50% off the bottom line of most companies—who are exporters, as David Levi has pointed out. Virtually all Canadian companies these days export out of their jurisdiction. We couldn't survive; the Canadian economy simply is too small.

This huge rise in the Canadian dollar was also coupled with rises in energy, in labour, in material costs. We've seen all of these things go right through the roof. Yet over that last five-year period, while we've been looking at all these numbers, the average selling price has gone down by almost 2.5%. This is a huge margin squeeze that the companies are facing here right now. Unfortunately, in these times you cannot pass on cost increases to your customer. First of all, customers now are expecting things to become cheaper; that just seems to be the nature of things, that prices are constantly dropping.

A big factor in that is our competition from overseas. The Chinas, the Indias, the eastern Europes of the world are becoming very aggressive. China is one of the largest manufacturing centres in the world. Every time our companies try to put some sort of price increase through to protect their margins, their customers simply turn around and look for an alternative supplier. So it's not an option for everyone.

Companies are looking at making improvements. They are implementing lean manufacturing; they're doing everything humanly possible to reduce their internal operating costs. As you know, companies are outsourcing. They're looking at that as a viable alternative, taking a look at the low margin, high run parts—components, pieces, sub-assemblies—that they can get from the best possible source and for the highest level of value and put in to allow the balance of the assembly and manufacturing to take place in Canada, so that we can then sell these high-value-added goods into the United States, Europe, Japan, and other leading economies.

Those are the issues we're faced with. We're also faced with acute labour shortages right now. If you take all of those things into account, right now our manufacturers are facing a tremendous squeeze, and they need help. We're operating in a global environment. As many of the committee members are well aware, most of our companies here in Canada aren't competing against one another; they're competing in that international marketplace; they're competing against firms in other countries.

Hence, from our perspective, what we as Canadian manufacturers are asking for—and I'll cut to the chase here—is reduced corporate income taxes, to make us more competitive with the other leading economies. Most importantly, we're asking for an amended depreciation allowance to allow manufacturing processing equipment and associated information communication technologies to be fully depreciated within two years. This follows a strategy the U.S. undertook over the last couple of years, as their dollar strengthened, to allow their manufacturers to invest in new technology and equipment to aid in their productivity enhancement and competitiveness.

We're also asking that the SR and ED tax credit be refundable and extended to cover a portion of international collaborative research and development work. Most of our companies are now finding partners all over the world—they have to find that new technology, that new expertise—and they're doing a lot of their research with other partners. We need to have that included.

Equally important are our employees and our skilled labour force. We're asking for the introduction of an employers training tax credit, creditable against the employment insurance premiums.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Thank you, sir.

From the Prince Rupert Port Authority, we have Don Krusel. Welcome.

11:20 a.m.

Don Krusel President and Chief Executive Officer, Prince Rupert Port Authority

Good morning, and thank you very much for allowing me the time to speak to you today.

The Prince Rupert port is approximately 600 kilometres north of Vancouver. That's important from a geographic perspective because it is the closest port in North America to Asia. I'm here to talk to you today about the partnership that the Port of Prince Rupert needs to have with the federal government under the Pacific Gateway strategy, led by Minister David Emerson, and the British Columbia government's British Columbia ports strategy.

Your mandate is all about Canada's competitiveness. We're a trading country, and Werner and his membership depend on transportation systems to be able to trade our exports with international customers, especially Asia.

The bottom line is that today approximately 2.2 million containers flow through the west coast of Canada. That is projected by our own estimates, by the Pacific Gateway strategy, to grow to 9 million containers by 2020. The Port of Vancouver, which is the main container gateway on the west coast right now, has plans to increase their capacity to around 5 million containers by 2020. This means that Canada will have a deficit of around 4 million containers in its ability to trade internationally by 2020 unless something is done about it.

We'd like to have that extra 4-million-container capacity built in Prince Rupert. Phase one of that plan is taking place right now, thanks to the generosity and financial support of the federal government, the provincial government, and the private sector. We are partway through the $17 million construction of phase one of a container facility to handle 500,000 containers. We are going to move directly into phase two and bring that capacity to 2 million containers by 2010, and then build a second terminal for another 2 million by 2013 to bridge that gap of 4 million.

This will cost approximately $1 billion between now and 2013. Of course, we are going to rely on the private sector, but there is a big role to play for the port authority here in Vancouver and the port authority in Prince Rupert. That's really what I'm here to talk to you about today.

I also want to mention that this isn't just about jobs on the waterfront or providing an export potential for the exporters and manufacturers of Canada. It will provide a general economic stimulus to the communities in northern B.C., Alberta, and right into Saskatchewan and Manitoba, equivalent to the impact of the 2010 Winter Olympics here in Vancouver.

As a port authority we need legislative change. The Canada Marine Act has been...for change for three years now. It handcuffs our ability to raise capital. Right now the Port of Prince Rupert, by the Canada Marine Act, by our letters patent, can only raise $22 million. We're talking about a $1 billion infrastructure improvement and we have a cap of $22 million. We need that lifted so we can go out into the markets and borrow much more than that. We know today that the financial markets would lend us much more than $22 million.

The second thing we would ask for is support for the amalgamation of federal assets in Prince Rupert, in the same way as it's happening here in Vancouver, where the three port authorities look to be amalgamated. There is a crown corporation in Prince Rupert called Ridley Terminals, Inc. It's a coal shipping facility owned by the federal government. We would like to see that amalgamated with the operations of the Port of Prince Rupert. It would provide the Port of Prince Rupert with funds that could be directed to this Pacific Gateway strategy initiative. It would also provide the Port of Prince Rupert with the leverage to borrow even more money in the public sector so we can fulfill this initiative.

Getting back to your mandate to measure Canada's competitiveness, we cannot be competitive in an international marketplace without the proper transportation infrastructure. We need to look at this very carefully. Give us the tools to build the infrastructure with the private sector so we can allow the manufacturers of Canada to access the world.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Well done, Mr. Krusel. Thank you.

We have Manny Jules with us today, from the Indian Taxation Advisory Board. Welcome, sir.

11:20 a.m.

Manny Jules Chairman, Indian Taxation Advisory Board

Thank you, Brian.

I guess it's a question of how to implement market-oriented first nations policy changes. The Indian Taxation Advisory Board proposes the following agenda to the finance committee for addressing the root causes of first nations market failure and improving the fiscal balance of Canada.

The finance committee should support initiatives that provide first nations with the fiscal means to undertake development initiatives, such as developing infrastructure to business grade, and enough fiscal certainty to have the incentive to pursue this. The tax advisory board is proposing a specialized first nations infrastructure program to provide part of the solution.

The finance committee should continue to support initiatives, such as the first nations goods and services sales tax, that increase first nations revenues. We suggest a greater role for the First Nations Tax Commission in support of the first nations GST to accelerate the take-up by first nations.

The finance committee should also support initiatives that provide for more first nations fiscal certainty. The federal government should commit itself to a formula-based transfer system that explicitly links service standards on first nations lands to those prevailing in the provinces. It should make this available to any first nation that can meet specific qualifications with respect to governance. The formula should support the delineation of financial responsibilities among the first nations and the federal and provincial governments. This would allow governments to provide greater certainty over the provision and policy pertaining to specific services.

The finance committee should support initiatives that raise awareness about the potential for economic development and what is required to realize it. The tax advisory board suggests that open-market housing on first nations land should be one of these initiatives. The finance committee should support initiatives that allow first nations to create greater certainty over land use and title, such as the proposed first nations land title act, which would forever change the way first nations operate in this country by allowing us, as first nations people, to use our lands in much the same way as every other Canadian in this country.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Thank you very much, Mr. Jules.

We move to questions now, and we will have five minutes for these.

Mr. Savage.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you very much.

And thank you to everybody who took the time to come to join us today.

Coming from Halifax, I think there's a special wisdom on Canada's coasts that's in greater abundance than it is in the centre. I've certainly seen nothing this morning to discourage me from that belief.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

A point of order on that, Mr. Savage.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

We'll go to the centre soon.

Listen, I appreciate your taking the time to come out.

My first question is for the person who left. Mr. Park, you're the--

11:20 a.m.

Dave Park Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

I'd be happy to respond.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Okay.

There are a number of recommendations from the board of trade, and I don't see anything here about the GST. The GST was cut by 1% last year, and the government's plan, I understand, is to cut it a further 1%. Can you tell me the view of the members of the board of trade relative to other tax reductions, specifically reducing personal income tax?

11:20 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

First of all, any tax reduction is a good move.

11:20 a.m.

Voices

Hear, hear!

11:20 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

However, it's pretty well established, including in research that has been done by the Department of Finance in Ottawa, that tax cuts that encourage capital investment and income tax cuts should take precedence over consumer tax cuts.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I think any tax cut is a good one, but you have to keep in mind the whole envelope. If we're talking $6 billion per point, that's an awful lot of money that could be spent on corporate tax cuts and personal income tax cuts.

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

If I might, as a supplementary response, I would suggest to you that with the growth of the economy, perhaps it would be able to do both.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

So you would recommend doing both? You would recommend going to the second 1% cut?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

I would suggest at this point that the priority in the future should go to maintaining the 1% tax cut that has occurred, but then move to tax cuts that would stimulate capital investment and reduce income tax.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Move to tax cuts that would be productive as opposed to non-productive.

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

It would suggest that both are productive, but some are more productive than others.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I don't want to get into a debate. You don't say anything in your presentation about the GST, so I assume it's not of significant enough importance to recommend it.

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

I think I've just responded, according to our policy.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

So you do think we should cut the second GST.

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Managing Director and Chief Economist, Vancouver Board of Trade

Dave Park

I suggested that in terms of priority, in terms of future tax cuts, they should go to measures that would stimulate capital investment and that would reduce income tax before we cut further on consumption taxes.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

You mention health, and the last line is that the “status quo is unacceptable”. The Halifax Chamber of Commerce, which I suspect would be a compatriot of yours, has come up with the same idea. However, they have in fact looked at health from the point of view of health promotion and healthy living and have implemented a program working with business, encouraging employees to actually get involved in checking their health and improving your health. Have you done anything similar to that?