Finance Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much, Mr. McCallum.

We will continue.

We now go to Mr. St-Cyr. You have four minutes.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to carry on my exchange with Ms. Ward. You only had a few seconds to speak and you did not really answer my question. I will explain.

In Quebec, child care centres play an education role which is to prepare children for the education system. In that context, charging parents seven dollars already goes against the principal of free public education. Ideally, if we have had the resources, we would have liked daycare to be free, just like primary and secondary schools are. In comparison society invests a lot more to educate our children. A parent who would want to raise his own children at home could not do so; it is not allowed. Even if it was allowed, I think that few people would agree that the parent should be paid to do so, since we have decided collectively that our society should take charge of our children and our future.

Is there a difference between pre-universal public schooling and the expectations one would have for universal daycare that would ideally be as cheap as possible? If so, what is that difference?

[Helen Ward]

Yes, there is a difference between public schooling and early childhood situations. There's a huge developmental difference. The developmental needs of young children are very different from the needs of older children. School is five or six hours a day. Day care, at least in B.C., can be up to 13 hours a day, seven days a week. The developmental differences are key.

Sharon mentioned that the optimal situation for children is a loving, caring situation. That is true, but part of that is also the continuity of care. You could have excellent caregivers, but if there are too many of them, the child is developmentally damaged.

The Quebec system currently has 21% of children who are ages six months to five years in it. There is 9% of children under one year old. It's not a universal system. A truly high-quality universal system would cost far more. Currently in Quebec, the staff-to-child ratio can be eight children for one staff. It's not high quality.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

So if we had more money to invest, the priority should be to improve this system rather than to give out a few hundred dollars to everyone, as the conservatives are doing. We should first consolidate what exists before investing money elsewhere.

I agree with you that it is not a universal system, which is very unfortunate. Many of my friends have children, or will have children soon, and they are very concerned about finding a daycare space. More money needs to be invested. However, if our society decides to do that, it will not be able to afford to send out cheques right and left to parents who decide not to take advantage of that service. There needs to be equal opportunity for everyone that wants to use public day care. Once that is done, we can start to give money to other individuals who do not want to use that service. Do you not agree?

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

There are 10 seconds remaining in Mr. St-Cyr's time.

[Helen Ward]

It is not financially possible to provide high-quality, centre-based care for all children or even a large number of them. The staffing needs alone are not resolvable, and it's simply not just.

The Liberal government in 1999 said, “Our policy should be fair and equitable and neither encourage nor penalize caregiving choices”, and that the best interests of the child should be the core of the policy, and parents are the ones to decide what the best interests of the child are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you very much.

We conclude now with the patient Mr. Wallace. You have four minutes, sir.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll be very quick and a lot less political.

I'm going to ask my friend from the port authority, first of all, does the economy affect the need for the 4,000 more units that we're looking at? Is it based on the economy being at its present level?

[Don Krusel]

A continuation of its present level, yes. The fact is that trade with Asia is growing as a result of world economics.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

In terms of what comes in and out of your port, what are the actual numbers? What's the percentage?

[Don Krusel]

The unique feature is that Prince Rupert is not a container port today. Right now, up until we complete the container terminal next year, we are an export facility for raw resources--coal, grain, and forest products.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I have a final question for you.

I also have a port in my riding, across the bay, Hamilton. That port authority is also looking for a change in legislation to allow them to borrow more money. Does it affect the federal tax treasury?

[Don Krusel]

No, absolutely not. Increasing the ability of ports to borrow simply allows us to go out to the financial institutions and say, will you lend us x dollars? They will assess it on business terms, and then we pay the interest and principle.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question for Mr. Levi.

You have an exception for Ontario--I happen to be from Ontario. Can you explain, is there no cap at present for investing in this program?

[David Levi]

There's no cap in the province of Ontario. The provinces of B.C., Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Quebec all have caps for their programs.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Provincial or federal?

[David Levi]

They are provincial programs that have been put in place, because this is a matching program with the provinces. In the province of Ontario, because it's been declining for the last number of years, it hasn't been too great an issue.

As I said in my brief, if we were to see a sudden spike in Ontario from a change like this, then certainly that is a discussion that would easily be held with the provincial government.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I read it in the brief. Are you saying to me that a change will not increase investment in Ontario?

[David Levi]

I think we will see some rebound in Ontario, but nowhere close to what it was at its maximum. Our estimate in Ontario--and we also operate there--would be that we might see maybe $50 million to $100 million more investment. At that point, I would expect that the federal government--because it will require provincial changes in each province--to go to the $10,000. This is an enabling piece that the provinces then have to match, and when they do that, I think they would then review the feasibility of whether they were going to remain on caps on not.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

My final question, Mr. Chairman, is to my two child care advocates, or child...whatever you want to call it.

The budget in 2006 had $250 million put aside for us to create a couple of hundred thousand spots over five years. Has your organization any plans--this is the question, it's really a yes or no--to submit to the Minister of Human Resources any plans as to how that program should be developed and the moneys spent?

Can you give me a yes or no on that?

[Helen Ward]

Yes. We did that already.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

And are you doing the same?

[Sharon Gregson]

We've already done that as well, yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Could you provide the committee, or at least me, with copies of what you've done?

[Helen Ward]

I could do that by e-mail; I don't have it here.