Finance Committee on Oct. 4th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Your time is up, Mr. St-Cyr.

Mrs. Ablonczy.

you have four minutes.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to all of you for being here. There have been some diverse presentations, but important ones.

I'd like to just ask Mr. Allen something. You said that the land surrounding Fort McMurray is owned by the Crown. Is that the Crown in right of Alberta or of Canada?

[Mike Allen]

It is the province.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It is the province. Clearly, you're crying for land. We saw an article last night about a man who came out from Quebec to work in Fort McMurray. He brought his fifth wheel so he'd have a place to live and then found he had no place to park it. What's the hold-up? Why can't there be an agreement with the province to release some of this land for development? What's the issue there?

[Mike Allen]

Certainly at one point there were some politics involved, but that seems to have gotten out of the way. The province is responding much more quickly now.

In the region, the growth we're experiencing right now was really unplanned. It was never expected to happen this quickly. The price of oil certainly has contributed greatly to that. When we go back to late 1980s and early 1990s when the boom fell, the price dropped--

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It's not so much of a problem now. Isn't land being made available?

[Mike Allen]

There is land being developed now. It has been released. We certainly could use a lot more. It took a long time to get it released when we were requesting it in the first place.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I had some discussions with various people about this issue of the labour shortage. The issue for them was a resistance to bringing in workers from overseas. They felt that workers should be recruited from the rest of Canada. They had some reasons; they felt that jobs should be going to Canadians rather than to people from overseas.

Have you dealt with that issue? Can you expand on it for the committee?

[Mike Allen]

Most of the concerns I have heard have been related to the labour unions, and many of the thoughts are well presented.

We, as well, believe that.... I think most companies also prioritize their requirements in local, then national, and then foreign workers, so foreign workers certainly take up the last priority, but it is becoming a growing priority. It's not because of competitiveness--you know, being able to bring in people from China, for example, or Mexico, and getting that labour cheaper. The folks who are looking for employees are just looking for warm bodies in those jobs.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

There was some resistance to recruiting from other parts of the country. I don't know whether it was politically motivated or whether there was really some good reason for it. There was a feeling that questioned why workers from all parts of the country should be sucked into Fort McMurray, so to speak. Do you see any advantage for workers to relocate to Fort McMurray in the long or short term? Have you addressed that issue?

[Mike Allen]

We have taken a position, as a business organization, that we are here for the community, so we're not looking for people to come in temporarily. We sympathize with communities in Newfoundland, for example, that are shrinking because of the large population that is moving from the eastern provinces into Fort McMurray. What we're hoping, though, is that people will actually relocate, bring their families here, and become members of the community. The transience in the workforce has grown dramatically and can be somewhat of a problem as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you, Mr. Allen.

We'll continue with three-minute rounds.

Mr. McKay is next.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

My first question is for Mr. Allen.

You were concerned about EI and the allocation of EI. Am I to interpret from your comments that you would like any job creation programs sponsored by EI to be eliminated from EI?

[Mike Allen]

No, we're not suggesting that. We have made a lot of progress in the EI program with regard to its availability to workers. Certainly our organization, both provincially and nationally, is prepared to work with any panel to help develop something that encourages people to go back to work, rather than encouraging them to.... The way the program is developed, there are still areas in it that encourage people not to work.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

The average is already $90,000 a year around here; that would encourage a lot of people to work.

[Mike Allen]

That is certainly not here.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

My next question is for Beverley Smith.

My colleague Paul Szabo, from Mississauga South, had a bill on the floor of the House that would recognize “unpaid work” as a pensionable credit. Would you in principle support that idea?

[Beverley Smith]

Yes, but yesterday Paul Szabo was against us for pension splitting, which we couldn't understand, so I'd have to talk to him.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Okay. I recommend you give him a call.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Mr. McKay, if you wish, you have another minute.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It's all right. I'll add it to my time next time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

I sincerely doubt that.

Dean Del Mastro, you have three minutes.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Samarasekera, I have a quick question. We've had a number of student groups and university groups come forward to suggest that the Government of Canada look at setting up a designated or dedicated transfer for post-secondary education to the provinces, meaning that money could only be used for post-secondary. Would you be supportive of that type of agreement between the federal government and the provinces?

[Dr. Indira Samarasekera]

It would depend very much on what it would replace. In other words, my concern--and I think I responded to John McCallum--is if that is the sole investment of the federal government in the post-secondary sector, and that takes away from the investments in research, graduate training, and so on, I would be concerned.

Back to the issue of post-secondary education, I believe increasingly it's a national issue. One of the concerns I have going forward is that for the segregation as being locally or provincially managed, it precludes Canada from taking a national position on how post-secondary is marketed abroad or marketed within the country or positioned within the country. I'm very ambivalent about that, quite frankly. I would have to see what that would be in the context of all the other investments the federal government would be making in supporting post-secondary and innovation.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Smith, I have a couple of things.

First of all, in a broader policy context, we do support the notion of income splitting for households, but it's a very difficult thing to move toward because it would represent a fairly significant change in our income tax system. Certain allegations have been made in the House that by not investing in a national day care program, what we may end up doing—and it's not something I agree with to any extent—is we'll have to invest in prisons long-term. Do you have comments on that?