Evidence of meeting #29 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steve Budnarchuk  Canadian Booksellers Association
Sam Shaw  President, Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, Alberta Association of Colleges and Technical Institutes
Doug MacRae  Executive Director, Alberta Association of Colleges and Technical Institutes
Melissa Blake  Mayor, Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo
David Hardy  President, Fitness Industry Canada
Bernie Blais  Chief Executive Officer, Northern Lights Health Region
Bill Peters  President, Telus World Science-Calgary
Beverley Smith  Mothers on the Rampage
Indira Samarasekera  President, University of Alberta
Mike Allen  President, Fort McMurray Chamber of Commerce

10:20 a.m.

Mayor, Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo

Melissa Blake

I think I just want to extend my gratitude to you for taking the time to come to Wood Buffalo, because indeed it is an anomaly. You would expect to find gold on the streets, but what you find are lots of torn-up...and traffic congestion.

I'm pleased that you had an opportunity to hear from our citizens. Understand, of course, that this perspective is not everyone's. I think this is the land of opportunity. We just need to create the right environment to achieve that.

Thank you very much on our behalf.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Thank you.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Thank you very much.

We'll continue and conclude with Mr. Dykstra.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be quick. I realize I have about one and a half minutes, maybe two, but I've come all the way to Fort McMurray for this, so I'll take advantage of it.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

We can give you three.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Wow, that's impressive.

To Mr. Blais, you mentioned that six physicians have left. I'm wondering if you could quickly comment as to why.

10:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Northern Lights Health Region

Bernie Blais

Well, the rental rates have gone up again. Just the cost of renting a physician's office has gone up exponentially. I haven't seen those kinds of numbers during my whole career. So that's one issue.

The other issue is just the volume of people. Maybe when they moved here it was 35,000, and they may have been one in a population of 2,000. Now they're one in a population of 5,000. With that volume, they have no life; they are on duty or on call. So it's not a very attractive place to be. And they make exactly the same money they would make in downtown Edmonton, Red Deer, or anyplace else. There is no recognition of the northern aspect of living, or of the travel costs when they go down south or to other places. They lose two or three days for travel, so there is no income for them, on top of the cost of having to stay somewhere else. It's nearly a disincentive.

We have no Canadian-trained doctors left in Fort McMurray, by the way. They're all foreign-trained. They're all IMGs. And as soon as those IMGs finish their contracts, they're gone.

That gives you a bit of the story.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

I've got to tell you, you seem kind of bummed out about the whole thing. I wonder if you're really enjoying your job.

10:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Northern Lights Health Region

Bernie Blais

Well, I do. I actually do.

We tend to think we can't solve these issues in northern or rural communities. I was up in Nunavut for three years as deputy minister there. I think it's that attitude we have that if you live in rural or northern communities, then of course you won't have any doctors. But that's not true. There are places in Canada that have been very successful at reversing these. Again, it's the attitude you bring to the table.

Unless we get help in at least levelling the playing field--in terms of the financing, in terms of funding equitably our health professionals, in terms of providing some reasonable incentives to offset the cost of housing--then of course we don't have that opportunity. So we need your help in that regard.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Mayor Blake, I have a question for you. I don't mean to put you on the spot on this, but it relates to the groups beside you. To the right of you is a group that would love to cut the GST for books, so that folks could actually read more. So they're coming from a mental perspective. Then to the left of you is an individual who would like to extend the tax credit to everyone in terms of the physical side.

If you had to make the decision, which one would you make?

10:25 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

10:25 a.m.

Mayor, Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo

Melissa Blake

With respect to the group to the left of me, our health care issues are a reflection of our population. Perhaps if we look at ways in which we can curtail detrimental health impacts over the longer term, that may work.

On the other hand, we would have nothing to work for if we didn't have education and literate people getting into our fine institutions.

10:25 a.m.

Voices

Hear, hear!

10:25 a.m.

Mayor, Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo

Melissa Blake

I wish you all the best with those decisions.

10:25 a.m.

A voice

You said nothing; that was great!

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

On behalf of the committee, thank you so much. It was a very stimulating discussion this morning.

I think I would probably sum up all of our perspectives by saying that in this boom town situation, let's hope it's truly short-term pain for long-term gain for Canada and for Alberta and for this community.

Thank you again for being here. We appreciate it very much.

We'll suspend for a few minutes while we let the next panel move in to take those seats.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Order, please.

I encourage those members of the committee who have conversations going to cease and desist. We are going to proceed now.

First of all, to those of you who were not here when the other panel of witnesses was proceeding, I welcome you, but I also will tell you that in the interests of time, we're going to keep your presentations to the five minutes that I believe you were pre-informed about. I will give you an indication when you have a minute remaining. I don't want to cut you off in mid-sentence, but I will let you know that I will cut you off at five minutes.

Welcome. Thank you for being here. We appreciate the time you've taken to be with us today. We appreciate your submissions prior to this as well.

We will immediately move forward with a witness on behalf of Telus World of Science in Calgary.

Mr. Peters, welcome. Five minutes to you, sir.

October 4th, 2006 / 10:35 a.m.

Bill Peters President, Telus World Science-Calgary

Thank you.

I'm the chief executive officer of the Telus World of Science and the Creative Kids Museum in Calgary, and I'm here to make the case for the role of science centres in driving the national science and technology economy, to outline the challenges facing Alberta's science centres, and to press for a national program to unleash the power of science centres that they can bring to our national economy.

You've already heard from our national organization, the Canadian Association of Science Centres, that our 35 facilities host seven million Canadians annually. This represents a huge resource to connect a national science culture agenda to Canadians at the grassroots level. Science centres act as economic drivers by working with families and young people from the earliest stages of learning, through the sometimes difficult hand-off from high school to higher education, to providing a basis for life-long learning.

At the earliest stages of learning, projects such as the Creative Kids Museum, set to open in Calgary in just nine days, literally wire the mind's learning pathways and set the stage for the future. We know there's a strong correlation between enhanced early learning experiences and improved math scores in middle school. We also know that middle school students around age 13 who are confident learners and have started to form a career goal are two to three times as likely to succeed in getting a college degree.

In other words, 13-year-olds who are currently coming to my institution will be filling knowledge-based jobs in Alberta and Canada within ten years. Their decision to follow an innovation career and be life-long learners will have been influenced by what they experienced at a science centre. Equally, science centres are considered so important to their communities that most were founded by local not-for-profit groups led by business people and parents.

We've seen other nations transform their economies in relatively short periods of time through national learning initiatives—Finland and Singapore are two of the classic examples—where science centres have played important roles. Countries such as Australia and the United States have recognized the important role that science centres play in their science and technology strategies.

It's no accident that the nation with the greatest technological prowess also has the greatest number of science centres and supports them at a national level. To give one example from the United States, the San Francisco Bay area alone boasts seven science centres.

In addition, China is currently completing a million-square-foot science centre in Beijing, and several others throughout the country.

We encourage the Canadian government to look at the global context, as it develops its science and technology strategy, and to invest in Canadian science centres as a means of broadening the benefits science will bring to Canadians, and in the end raise Canada's competitiveness as a nation.

In Alberta, the phenomenal growth has outstripped the capacity of our facilities in Calgary and Edmonton. Both urgently need to grow. In Calgary, we're functioning in a building that was designed in 1967 to house 50,000 guests a year. Today, 250,000 guests crowd the facility, often to the point where good learning seems hardly possible. Equally, through outreach and programs it's urgent to support science learning in places throughout Alberta and Canada, places like Fort McMurray.

Canadian science centres play an important role in encouraging youth to enter fields that, in the future, will meet the growing skills gaps evident not only in Alberta but across Canada. By investing in science centres, the Canadian government will be able to take practical steps to extend the benefits of science and technology to main-street Canadians, small businesses, youth, and families. In this way the federal government will be able to demonstrate leadership and partnership with the local communities.

The initiative of the Canadian Association of Science Centres is a national one. Many science centres are seeking support to expand their roles in their communities. Our initiative represents a way for the federal government to engage with initiatives coming forward from across Canada. These will include initiatives from Quebec City, from Saskatoon, from Newfoundland, from Prince Edward Island. We encourage the federal government to continue to support these initiatives, but within an accountable structured framework that speaks to a national strategy.

Given our present-day demands and those from other science centres seeking expansion or communities seeking to build their own science centre, we're calling for a $200 million fund, over five years, to finance these activities.

Thank you.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Thank you very much, Mr. Peters, for your presentation.

Good morning, Ms. Smith. Welcome. You're here on behalf of Mothers on the Rampage, and you have five minutes to speak.

10:40 a.m.

Beverley Smith Mothers on the Rampage

Thank you.

I've placed before you a folder of documents in blue, which I don't see that anybody has, but that's life.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Ms. Smith, we have to have any documents that are presented to the committee translated and then presented in both official languages.

10:40 a.m.

Mothers on the Rampage

Beverley Smith

You have something. That's fine.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

I assure you we will get them, if not immediately, then as soon as they're translated. All committee members will receive them.

Please continue.

10:40 a.m.

Mothers on the Rampage

Beverley Smith

Okay.

In the few minutes I have, I will explain the objectives of my brief. Then, I will explain the what should be done to reach those objectives.

This is a quick little story of early times. Men were hunters and gatherers; women were closer to home, tending the young, preparing the food, and nurturing the sick. The hunter needed someone at home to tend the young, and the caregiver needed someone to go out and get the food.

Money was made a commodity but assigned to the male role, the one away from home. The woman at home still worked as hard, but she was considered not deserving of money. She was dependent on the money that the one away brought in, but he still depended on her for the caregiving. It was still a partnership.

Slowly the stigma developed of not earning money. Economists now said being out of the home earning was the only role that was work, the only useful or productive role. Slowly we sank into what women have noticed for at least a century, the degrading of care work in the home. That trend continues.

Though we are several thousands years later, the needs of humans have not changed. We don't send hunters out to bring the bacon home, but they bring home money to buy the bacon. Babies still need to be washed by hand, and the care role has not evaporated. Much has changed, but much is the same.

Every adult is faced with dual obligations of earning and family, career and home, or, as some put it, work and life. There are many ways to resolve this. With the Internet, many people do their paid work from home. We're seeing a return to a medieval tradition of the home-based business, as well as the high-tech option of contact in the office while you're halfway around the world. You can take your child to paid work, or have the tribe, the community, take care of your child while you earn. People want different solutions.

What we should notice and what I urge you to think about is that we still, and you still, define usefulness, productivity, and competitiveness only in terms of money. Think about that. We have a male paradigm takeover that still devalues roles in the home. The government may say it values women; it only values women who get paid. It may say it values children, but it only values children in paid care. We have treated the home-based role as one of no value.

We've tilted economic forecasts way out of whack, because they don't count the human factor. They don't count that we're all one car accident and one phone call in the night away from being caregivers. We've become obsessed with money; and our kids, whom I see because I'm a school teacher, are hurting. They show stress and anxiety disorders, eating disorders, early gang affiliations, drug use, and overuse of alcohol. Lonely singles, I think, in Fort McMurray are having some of these problems. Our kids are crying for someone to be there for them, but the government is pressuring that someone to be away to earn money.

For women who stand up for the care role and dare to do it anyway, there's a huge financial penalty and disdain. As a woman, I think we have to reassess that attitude. It permeates the tax system. When you talk of labour force participation, you're only talking of paid work. You're ignoring unpaid work. You're ignoring volunteer work. LIstening ears that help the teen feel that life is still worth living actually add to the nation's productivity. Time invested to make a child feel special and take them to the science centre benefits the community. Our tax system penalizes people who do this. There is a single income tax penalty on households that's 45% higher for single income. When we speak of quality of life, we're not providing the time element.

You ask what spending measures to recommend to make sure citizens are healthy. I urge you to look also at emotional health. You want businesses to be competitive, but unhappy workers are not productive. You ask for suggestions about infrastructure, but there's a question before that question.

Ken Dryden a year ago wanted to build an infrastructure for national day care--a huge system, a glorious standardized, regulated program for all children in Canada to be taken care of by non-family members. He was excited about this infrastructure, and so was Paul Martin. It was like they were building a corporation--consulting stakeholders, writing specifications, and institutionalizing and regulating a basic relationship: the parent-child bond. If children were cars or widgets, it would have worked, but they aren't. The national child care policy was so women could work--notice the goal.

There was a conference yesterday in Ottawa. Sixteen pension rights groups, 2.25 million seniors, are angry at the tax penalty because one of them was a caregiver in the home. They want pension splitting. Last year I was part of 17 demonstrations against only funding day care, not against day care but against only funding day care.

I just want to alert you, having listened to the last group, that you are hearing a lot of people who are all saying, “I would like money.” I'm not actually saying the same thing. But you are hearing from people who, if you think of it, are saying, “Give only me some money, because my needs are special.”

My goal is to have you say, give people the money more broadly and trust them a bit.

Just to point out to you, fitness centres do not own fitness; you can take the kid for a walk. Bookstores do not own literacy; you can go to the library. And even though you're going to fund some of these people, we should not exclude others from funding.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Thank you very much, Ms. Smith.

We continue now with the University of Alberta. We are pleased to have the president, Indira Samarasekera.

You have five minutes.