Finance Committee on Feb. 13th, 2008

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

Mr. O'Sullivan, once the nomination is made, will there be any input from PCO?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

No, once the appointment is made, our role will be completed.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Will there be an order in council that will be renewable after three, four or five years? Is there anything...?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

It's a maximum of a five-year term for that position, and it's renewable. Yes, it is.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

A question for all three of the departments is whether any conditions were imposed on the parliamentary budgetary office, in terms of saying, well, this is how it's going to work. Was anything put forward?

Are there any conditions, in terms of how you and the Treasury Board view it, Mr. Wild?

[Joe Wild]

There are no conditions outside of whatever is framed within the legislation; Treasury Board has not imposed any conditions. The legislation sets the mandate and limits of the authorities for the parliamentary budget officer. The government, and Treasury Board, certainly, will be respecting those limits set by the legislation.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Ms. Rechico and Mr. Robidoux, did Parliament say that it wanted the office of Parliament to be directed in that fashion?

[Benoit Robidoux]

It comes to the same thing, because the process in line with the legislation in force. It is an order of Parliament.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. O'Sullivan, I get the feeling that part of the problem in naming a person is that you haven't been able to set your conditions, that you haven't been able to tell the person who is to be nominated, “Listen, we want to make sure you don't embarrass the government.” Is that part of the conditions and part of the delay by your department? If you look around the table, I think that's the feeling we're getting.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So one of the conditions before you hire the person is, don't embarrass the government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

That question might be out of order, but a quick answer, please.

[Marc O'Sullivan]

The answer is no.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

It's the same question to all three.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

We'll move on now.

Mr. Crête.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm done.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to continue on the subject of classification. If the committee believes that the classification was unsatisfactory and should be changed, that would mean that any request or recommendation to that effect would have to be submitted to the speakers of both houses—the Speaker of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Commons—who would then have to determine whether the current classification did in fact need to be reconsidered.

[Marc O'Sullivan]

Since the issue was one of relativity, I imagine the question consists in determining whether the Parliamentary Budget Officer could report directly to the Clerk, or to the speakers of the two houses, rather than to the parliamentary librarian.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Given the problems of recruiting someone suitable, perhaps the position should be given a level equivalent to that of independent parliamentary officers, at least to guarantee the remuneration. I just want to see whether, under the current act—because you are remaining within the framework of the act—a recommendation to that effect could theoretically be taken up by the speakers of the two chambers, and if the two speakers could decide to raise the classification of the PBO position to solve the problem. But do you believe that the act would necessarily have to be amended?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

In fact, the pay level for the position has not been established by Parliament. Under the act, the Parliamentary Budget Officer receives the pay and benefits established by the governor in council. That is established as the appointment order is issued.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

There is a contradiction there. These people have established that a higher pay scale needs to be offered to attract the right person. So why was that decision not made?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

A higher pay scale is still a possibility. The governor in council has broad discretionary authority in this.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Earlier, you talked about taking the relativity principle into account. Yet the governor in council can decide that the salary must be a given amount, regardless of the relativity principle.

[Marc O'Sullivan]

The only reservation I would express on that would be regarding the Parliament of Canada Act provisions governing the parliamentary librarian position, since the subordinate reporting relationship is required. When we received the position description, we discussed required qualifications and other considerations with people from the parliamentary librarian's office. From the very start, it was agreed that the person in question would report to the parliamentary librarian.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

We have often seen deputy ministers being paid more than their ministers, even if the minister was the boss.