Finance Committee on Feb. 13th, 2008

[William R. Young]

Yes, if possible. Of course, the role of the Parliamentary Budget Officer is to help you, either by answering your questions or doing analyses for you.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Although the officer has not yet been appointed, your document indicates that $2.7 million has already been set aside in the budget for this purpose. There is probably work already being done.

Could you tell us whether you have examined the validity of the current numbers that the government has made public? For example, in his economic statement last November, the Minister of Finance announced a surplus of approximately $10.3 billion for this year. Did you verify those numbers, even though the officer has not yet been appointed?

[William R. Young]

We already have a division staffed by economists. However, I do not have access to that money right now: the funding is earmarked for next year. We will continue to offer services through our economists and the division.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Darling or Mr. Sabourin...

[Jacques Sabourin, Acting Director General, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament]

To try to answer your question very specifically, I can tell you that no analysis of the type that you are describing has been done for the moment because we do not have the necessary resources. At this point, the resources allocated to committees and individual MP requests are fully mobilized. Moreover, we are not in a position to access data as specialized as what would be available to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. In short, we have not yet begun that type of analysis.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Are you confirming to us that if the officer's appointment is considerably delayed, there is a risk that he or she may not really be ready from an operational standpoint to carry out this research even in the upcoming fiscal year? In view of the budget cycle, it would be important for the appointment to take place quickly. Is that right?

[Jacques Sabourin]

I think that Mr. Young has answered that question. However, I do not believe that this function can be completely operational within six, seven or eight weeks.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Under its current mandate or as part of its preparation for the Parliamentary Budget Officer position, has the Library of Parliament produced any documents that can be made available on the question that I asked, which is the comparison between the government's forecasts and the results of your analysis?

[Jacques Sabourin]

To my knowledge, there are no such documents. However, members of Parliament may have made individual requests for analyses of that type from our Parliamentary Information and Research Service. But as you know, these analyses are confidential and are provided only to the member making the request, unless he or she formally agrees to share them.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

As part of the new officer's duties, will information of this type not be made public and provided to all members?

[Jacques Sabourin]

It will depend on the requests that come to us from the committees and the members themselves, I think.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Can you take the initiative of saying that the new officer will inform members, by way of general information, halfway through the year of what the surplus is likely to be, for example? In past years, the federal government has systematically underestimated the surplus. This is no secret; it is a proven fact.

[William R. Young]

My short answer is that, in my opinion, this is the reason that the PBO position was created.

[Jacques Sabourin]

Under the legislation that was passed, the PBO will have much greater access to departmental data then is the case right now. The act is very specific on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Crête.

We'll now move on to Mr. Del Mastro for five minutes.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Young, I just noted that at the end of your comments you said, “Your invitation to appear before the Committee obviously is a timely one. Selection of the PBO is a decision of the government and I am currently waiting for the decision.” That's contrary to my understanding of how the position would be established. My understanding is that this isn't a finance department function and it's not a government function; it's a function independent of the library to put someone in place.

I guess, obviously, the first question I have, and I think it's a relevant question, and I'm not looking to come down on you, is why this is taking so long. I'm looking at the timeline. You indicate in March 2006 that the discussions had started, so it was imminent that this would happen. We had royal assent of the Federal Accountability Act on December 12, 2006. That's 14 months ago.

We sit today with this position not filled. I think that's the relevant question. I have looked at the timing you presented with respect to who you brought in to consider. You brought a search firm in on August 28, 2007, and on November 30, 2007, there was a blue ribbon selection committee composed. But again, that's almost a year after the act received royal assent. Could we have moved a little quicker on this?

[William R. Young]

The act received royal assent on, I believe December 10 or December 12. I submitted a job description to the Privy Council Office, which is responsible for classifying this position, 10 days later. At the time I was told I was either the first or second person affected by the Federal Accountability Act to have submitted the job description. I waited until sometime in July, approximately seven months later, to receive word from the Privy Council Office about the level at which this job would be classified.

You have to understand, Mr. Chair, that this is a Governor in Council appointment. It is not my appointment. It is one that is made by the Governor in Council, and at this point the recommending minister is the leader of the government in the House of Commons.

My obligation under the act was to launch the search process. That was done through a bidding process. I received the classification sometime at the beginning of or in mid-July. I had to launch a bidding process for an executive search firm. That firm was in place at the end of August. It took them a little while. The national advertising campaign ads were in The Globe and Mail and La Presse on, I believe, September 24. In the meantime, they began canvassing people. I believe they spoke to well over 400 individuals in terms of looking for candidates for this position.

So as far as I'm concerned, I moved as expeditiously as one could possibly move in expediting this process.

The other thing I think that I was always aware of is that this is a new function. There isn't one like it in the Westminster system of government in any of the countries that follow the same model of government we do, and I was very careful to try to make sure that as a new function, it would work within that system.

Allan Darling may have other comments to make, but basically the delay is because of the seven-month wait.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Okay.

Just for clarification, is it therefore your position that you are going to put forward a name for a Governor in Council selection?

[William R. Young]

That was all done in December.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

So that has been done. You have put forward a suggested name for the Governor in Council appointment.

[William R. Young]

That was all done in December. The selection committee put forward its recommendations to the government House leader before Parliament adjourned in December.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on to Monsieur Mulcair.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I've listened carefully to what Mr. Young said about the British type of parliamentary system, which he calls the “Westminster system.” I am curious to know whether he thinks this PBO position is a difficult fit with the British-style system.

[William R. Young]

I believe that it will improve the services provided to parliamentarians. It is an essential new tool available to you to get information. It will give you access to strategic advice relating to your work on the Standing Committee on Finance, for example.