Finance Committee on Feb. 27th, 2008

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chairman, would it be possible to postpone the vote until our next meeting? I would like to have more information on the nature of this bill and the effect of the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

For your information, if we vote this down, we have until March 5.

We can deal with this at another meeting, if that is what you're asking. Fair enough.

Mr. Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would prefer that we deal with it at our next meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

I understand that, but we're voting on this motion right now.

Do you want the extension or not? That is the motion.

(Motion negatived) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

If we do not bring this forward before March 5, it will be deemed adopted as is. If we want to move it and kill it, as Mr. Pacetti has suggested, then that is an option we have, and we'll leave it to the discretion of the committee to do their will between now and March 5.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

My question is directed towards the clerk, just to refresh my memory. If we do not do anything further in this committee, is it still going to go to a vote in the House, or should we vote it down for it not to go to the House for a vote?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Jean-François Pagé]

If we do not do anything, it will be deemed adopted with no amendments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

I would suggest that we vote it down here.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

I would like to put forward a motion that we vote down Bill C-305.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay. The motion is on the floor. Is there any opposition?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Your comments are being exchanged so quickly that the interpreter is unable to keep up properly. Can you please avoid these monologues and dialogues in English so that I can follow the discussion please?

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I will move the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, we understand that, and we'll slow it down a little bit. That's fine.

Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill C-305 not be adopted by the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay. We have a motion on the floor. Is it in order?

This is the way I'm going to rule on this: If we have unanimous consent to deal with this, we will entertain this motion; if not, we should put it on the order paper and do it on Monday. Fair enough? That's just being fair.

If there's unanimous consent, I'll ask for that. Is there unanimous consent to deal with it? No? Okay.

I don't see unanimous consent, so we will bring this back on Monday. We'll put it on the paper and do it right. Fair enough?

Let's move on now to the bill at hand. We have a private member's bill, Bill C-207.

We have Mr. Robert Bouchard. Would you please introduce the people at the other end of the table? Then we'll allow you to speak to your bill.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Accompanying me today are Mr. Marc-André Roche and Mr. Alexandre Cliche. I wish to thank you for welcoming me today to discuss Bill C-207, a bill concerning tax credits and amending the Income Tax Act.

In concrete terms, the goal of this bill is to reverse the exodus of young graduates who are moving to large urban centres and to encourage them to begin their professional careers in the regions which would benefit from skilled labour.

During second reading of this bill, certain members of Parliament asked questions. I would like to take a few moments to address their concerns with respect to Bill C-207.

According to the Emploi-Québec economist, Mr. Clément Desbiens, all regional employment sectors will be increasingly affected over the years to come. In a document entitled “Employment Perspectives 2005-2009”, it was stated that in the Province of Quebec alone, there will be 251,000 positions to fill during this period. In my region of Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean, Emploi-Québec estimates that 18,000 new positions will have to be filled during the same period of 2005 to 2009.

In addition, some colleagues have pointed out that this bill should be accompanied by an overarching plan for regional development. I am in full agreement with these statements; however, Bill C-207 is simply a starting point which will allow our regions and regional companies to recruit and retain skilled workers.

In fact, a similar tax credit has proven to be successful for the Government of Quebec. This tax credit was implemented in 2003 and provides assistance to new graduates who are settling in regions that have been designated by the Government of Quebec. The number of young people benefiting from this tax credit has gone from 2,000 to 9,000 between 2003 to 2007. Obviously, this program has proven to be successful in Quebec.

In 2006, the program was launched at a cost of $30 million to the Government of Quebec. If the program were nationalized, this program would cost the federal government $90 million in 2006, which is a small investment if we want to encourage young people to migrate to the regions.

This bill, therefore, seeks to create a non-refundable tax credit. A young person must pay taxes prior to receiving a tax credit of a maximum of $8,000 for a given period.

I therefore ask the members of the Committee on Finance to help our regions support our young people. We must put a stop to the demographic hemorrhaging and the exodus of our young people to major urban centres. We must foster development of our manufacturing and processing industries, by opening the pool of skilled labour to our entrepreneurs.

In conclusion, I wish to add that young graduates in remote areas are fewer and far between. The regions are suffering as a result of the exodus of young people and specialized workers. The acceleration of the aging of the population in our regions is just one of the problems that is the result of this exodus. When a region loses its young people who have special training in specific sectors, a region's vitality diminishes. The exodus of young people undermines a region's ability to innovate. Indeed, young people with specialized training are better educated than those who stay behind.

That concludes my presentation. I am ready to answer your questions. The two people accompanying me will also assist me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll go exactly there right now with regard to questions. We'll open the floor to Mr. McKay, and he can start with his first round of questioning, seven minutes.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you.

I'm trying to understand this bill, more than anything else. Basically, as I understand the scheme, you would have a designation of regions, and that would be where the person to be potentially benefited by this bill would go.

So the designation of regions is a bit complicated here under the Designation of Regions Act. I never even knew there was a Designation of Regions Act—sorry, Regional Development Incentives Act.

So basically you defer to the Governor in Council for the purposes of an order to designate a particular area a region. I'm given to understand that there have been no regions designated by order in council thus far. Is that correct?

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Yes. It is under the Regional Development Incentives Act. The section entitled “Designation of regions” reads as follows:

3.(1) Subject to subsection (2), the Governor in Council, after consultation with the government of any province or provinces, may for the purposes of this act, by order designate as a designated region, for the period set out in the order, any region comprising the whole of that province or these provinces, or any portion thereof not less than 12,500 square kilometres in size, that is determined to require special measures to facilitate economic expansion and social adjustment.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Yes, I understand that. You could presumably designate the province of Quebec as a region. Is that correct, for the purposes of this legislation?

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

The act stipulates a “province”. As regards a “region”, in Quebec, there are 17 regions and in each and every single province, there are areas that are designated as a “region”. As regards this, the governor in council must consult the provinces and territories to agree upon the designated regions. You are talking about the federal designation of a province or region, but I wish to specify that a region is found within a province.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Within the interior.

The purpose of your bill, as I would understand it, is to drive young people to settle in rural areas. What I'm trying to determine is whether you could defeat yourself, if you will, by having a province designated as a region and....

Well, I'll take another example: Prince Edward Island. You take it as a region, and yet I could live and work in Charlottetown, for instance, and still qualify for this program. Is that a reasonable anomaly in your bill?

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

If consultations have been held with a province, and if the province agrees to proceed a certain way, then there is agreement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Very quickly.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I wish to add that the region also must be experiencing economic difficulty. If it is not, then there is no negative growth. Of all the criteria which determine economic difficulty, this is the most significant.