Finance Committee on May 25th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci.

Back to Mr. Wallace, please.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have one FINTRAC question, and then I have more of a general question on pages 4 and 5.

On the FINTRAC question, on the estimates on page 9-10 there's a significant decrease in the internal services from the previous year, from $18 million to $7 million. Is that because you don't need those services anymore, or you've restructured, so you don't—

[Margaret Baxter]

It's a restructuring of our allocation. It's related to an adjustment in our allocation of our costs as opposed to a reduction in our internal services.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So the money going from the $30 million to the $42 million--the extra $12 million--is a significant increase based on work you're going to be doing on anti-terrorism and money laundering. Is there a new division, or new work to be done?

[Margaret Baxter]

Sorry, could I have that...?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

You're going from $29.5 million to $42.4 million.

[Margaret Baxter]

I'm sorry, I don't have the document.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It's on page 9-10.

That's a significant increase on the actual program, would you not agree?

[Margaret Baxter]

Yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

And what are we doing?

[Margaret Baxter]

The program is maintaining stable; it is just a different allocation of our resources.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So the money, then, was actually spent on internal services. You're internalizing. You're not shopping that out; you're doing it yourself.

[Margaret Baxter]

That's right. It is because part of our IM/IT shop was allocated to internal services, and now it's being allocated to the program.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Does that increase the bodies in your department?

[Margaret Baxter]

No. The organization is remaining stable.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I read “internal services”, I'm assuming that it's a general transfer to say an IT department or somebody who's doing HR for your organization, and that's why it was accounted for as internal services and not part of the program.

[Margaret Baxter]

That's right.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

But that's not really the case. Those people actually worked for FINTRAC, and now we're reallocating the accounting of it. We're just putting it to programming.

[Margaret Baxter]

That's right. It is the part of the cost of our IM/IT shop that supports the program. It doesn't support the internal services.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you for that.

When I look at table 4, it says transfers for $158 billion, and then I look at table 5, and it only accounts for 73% of what's transferred, and it lists them all there. That means 25% or a little over that isn't listed anywhere. Where would a guy like me find the gas tax transfer? Is that included in this somewhere? I don't understand where that other 25% is.

[Sherry Harrison]

Could you just clarify where...?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It's on pages 4 and 5.

[Sherry Harrison]

That's in the estimates?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Yes.

Table 4, at the bottom of page 4, says, “Transfer payments....$158.8 billion”.

Then, at the top, it says, “Major Transfer Payments”, and it describes them: up to $115 billion, which accounts for 73%. I want to know where a guy like me can find the other 25%-plus; where it is, where it goes, and who gets it in those transfer payments.

[An hon. members]

To the Liberals.