Finance Committee on March 15th, 2012

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So just to confirm—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order, please.

I have Ms. Glover. Then I'll go to you, Mr. Jean.

Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Unfortunately, Mr. Julian was asked on three occasions to clarify, and to be specific about the time that would be required, and failing to do so really is detrimental to this committee in particular, because we do have such a charged agenda. I'm not sure why Mr. Julian continues to evade the question and circumvent.

But what I will tell Mr. Julian is that we have some very important pieces of legislation. I've no problem reviewing people's biographies on my own time, and if I have a problem, I would bring it to subcommittee, and that would be my recommendation.

I will be voting against this motion as a result of Mr. Julian's evasion of the three questions put to him. I will be voting against it also because I do not believe that we have the time at this point to be taking a subcommittee and allowing them to ask for witnesses and to ask for in-depth study. We have some other things that are pressing.

I do want to also cite that within the rules there is nothing to compel committees to review order in council appointments. This was a ruling by Speaker Fraser, if you want to refer to Debates of December 11, 1986, at page 1998.

I too take a huge interest in the people who are appointed through order in council, and I do my homework. If I have a concern, I will bring it to the subcommittee. That's what I'm going to suggest the rest of the committee consider doing, but I'll vote against this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Jean, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I understand the makeup of the subcommittee, it's one member from the Liberal Party, one member from the NDP, and two members from the Conservative Party. So it would be two Conservatives and two opposition members: is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

That's correct—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I understand—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

—plus your chair.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Of course.

I understand why—

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

That's three to two.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

—Mr. Julian wants to send the decision-making process to the subcommittee.

I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

I have Mr. Julian and then Mr. Brison.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I answered each time I was asked by my Conservative colleagues. I was asked a very specific question and I answered very specifically.

I'm surprised that Conservative members of the committee don't want to do their due diligence, and that I think is the basic response. We've been as flexible as we could possibly be. We're trying to make the process work. We said we'd put it in the hands of the subcommittee, where there are three Conservatives and two members of the opposition, and we're hearing back from the Conservatives that no, they don't want to support—

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

That's not true—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

—what is the due diligence of this committee, and that most committees are supposed to do.

So I'm surprised and disappointed. I'll have to say that, Mr. Chair. I'm disappointed that as a committee we're not doing the due diligence, the things that, as members of this committee, we're called upon by the public of Canada to do as the normal course of events.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Brison, and then Ms. McLeod.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I want to propose.... I know the Manning Centre had a meeting this weekend, and I can—

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Were you there?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

No, no, but I was actually there in the House when Preston Manning and the Reform Party members were there and talking about greater parliamentary scrutiny over appointments and the rest of it. It was as a Progressive Conservative Party that no longer exists.

Nonetheless, may I make a proposal that would be entirely consistent with the hereditary roots of the Conservative Party of Canada and Mr. Manning's philosophy? That would be that we would ask the full committee, not the subcommittee, in the interest of transparency....

I am certain that the government is very proud of these proposed appointments. I am certain that the government is enthusiastic about these nominees, and their backgrounds and resumés, and is eager to showcase them to Canadians.

I would propose—and this would address Mr. Jean's concern that it be left simply with the subcommittee—that the full committee undertake this study and give the government an opportunity to showcase these fine Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. McLeod, and then again to Mr. Julian.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly I have not been a member of Parliament for so many years, but I have had at least a couple on other committees. The committee experience I had was that when there was something that was of particular interest, those appointments were actually flagged, and of course we had some process around them, but certainly it was not common practice that....

You know, most of the members did their due diligence and read the bios or explored the background, but it was not a committee process for all the appointments. I think if you look at how much time would be spent in committees across this House, if we were looking at all these government in council appointments....

I do have to say, in spite of Mr. Julian's comments that he responded, that what we are actually voting on is a motion, and the motion does not say “subcommittee”. It says “examine the following”. The motion really doesn't help frame what we're going to do and where we're going to go with this particular issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. McLeod.

Mr. Julian, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We offered an olive branch, and the Conservatives don't seem to want to have the subcommittee look into this.

I would certainly agree to Mr. Brison's suggestion that the full committee examine. If there is resistance to having the subcommittee look into this, even though there are three Conservatives and two members of the opposition, then the full committee should look into the order in council appointments.

It is a question of transparency. It's a question also of due diligence. It's certainly something that the original founders of the Conservative Party spoke to quite often.

As I say, we're surprised and disappointed that what should be a routine part of our due diligence, that we brought forward in the spirit of transparency and doing the full due diligence on these kinds of appointments, has been rejected by our Conservative colleagues.

I think it is right and proper that we have some committee meetings around this, because I'm sure that Conservatives are very proud of the appointments they've made. It seems doubtful, though, because there just seems to be a real resistance for that due diligence on the other side of the committee.