Evidence of meeting #67 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Jackson. I only have 30 seconds.
Mr. Rainer, we heard Campaign 2000 saying there was nothing in the budget to reduce poverty.
Can you tell us what you see in this budget that responded to your pre-budget requests? Is there anything regarding reducing poverty?
Conservative
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a pleasure to be able to join the hearings on Bill C-38, an outstanding piece of legislation that I'm proud to support.
I think one of the things that may be lost in the discussion, specifically when the NDP talks about democracy, is the confusion about obstruction and democracy. I don't believe the wilful effort to obstruct legislation should in any way be confused with democracy or debate or otherwise. I think we're having a debate about this bill, but I also think we've had the opportunity to debate many of the items in this bill for some time.
I'm interested, Mr. Turk, in your comments. You were careful with your language. You indicated that, in real terms, dollars have actually declined. That, of course, is an economics term, adjusting for the real value of money, so I would assume that in nominal terms, investments have not been reduced. Is that accurate?
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
What counts is what the money will buy. When I say in constant dollars, it means taking out the effect of inflation. The amount available for researchers to spend on their research has declined in real dollars.
Conservative
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
That's correct.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
That's good.
During the same period of time, as I recall in Budget 2007, we had a one-time increase of 40% in post-secondary funding directly to the provinces. We then put in place a 3% escalator each and every year, which of course is in place now. My colleague mentioned the funds we spent on post-secondary institutions in terms of construction. There were many new laboratories built over that period of time that are supporting institutions right across the country. Certainly all of these investments, major investments, hundreds of millions of dollars—all of these were viewed as quite positive.
During the same period of time, you're suggesting in real terms dollars have not increased.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Yes. To be clear, your government did make a commitment of a 3% escalator each year. You've honoured that, and we appreciate that.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
On top of the 40%.
Of course, the other thing I would say is we always have to keep in mind the times we're living in. We've made all of these investments and prioritized education right across the country at a period of time when we've been struggling with the deficit, but globally, many similar countries like Canada—for example, the U.K.—have actually withdrawn significant amounts of money. We've made a different decision, haven't we?
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Our principal comparator and the place where we lose academics to or gain them from is principally the United States. They've made much more significant investments in research than our country has.
Your government did, in 2009, commit $2 billion for a knowledge infrastructure project to which your colleague is responding, but at the same time it cut the funding for the granting councils by $147.9 million. We had instances of labs that received very valuable new equipment but had to close because they had no operational money. Part of the problem is just the failure to understand, I think on the government's part, what is necessary in order to have a successful research and scientific venture.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
No, I don't think it's a failure to understand. I think it's in fact—
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Well, when you put in millions for physical infrastructure and there's no money for human infrastructure....
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
In fairness, Mr. Turk, I would like to speak.
I think it's important for the government to set priorities and to understand where the economy is going, and to make sure that we're responding to that.
I've had the opportunity to tour the rapidly expanding and developing economies in this world. What I can tell you is they are very fleet of foot. They're moving very quickly. As Canadians we can debate things until the cows come home, but I can tell you that those economies will not set aside. They will continue to advance. As Canadians we can meet that challenge head on or we can be left behind. I prefer a government that's going to meet that challenge head on. That's what we're doing.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Conservative
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, I will finish up by perhaps clarifying some misleading statements.
Ms. Nash mentioned that previous budgets were not as comprehensive. I would direct the witnesses and all Canadians who are watching this to have a look at Budget 2010, for example, which contains 880 pages. Yes, it was a minority government, which is why Mr. Mai's logic makes no sense. Their parties together only asked for 16 hours of study on that bill, where we have provided 60 hours on a smaller bill, virtually half the size of the 2010 bill. Most of the things that are in that 2010 bill are in this bill again, because we're now enhancing and improving things.
I just want to make sure that when untruths are said, people have the opportunity to look at the documentation and see which side of this table is being honest. I'm going to say that for the last time, because it keeps coming back, and it's important that we be very frank with Canadians.
I would like to turn to Mr. Turnbull. I truly do admire the work you do, sir. I understand we have some differences in opinion on some of the things that are in the bill, but may I ask you about some of the things that I think we might agree on? I'm going to go through them, and you tell me whether or not you think these are valuable enhancements to what we presently have in the area of health. I'm talking about everything in the budget. It might not all be in this budget implementation bill, but it will be coming, so I'm interested in going through the ones in the budget implementation bill as well as some others.
With respect to investing in mental health research, there is $5.2 million to establish an integrated network of mental health-related professionals. Is that good or bad?
Past-President, Canadian Medical Association
Any amount of money into mental health would be great. I'd love to see investment, not having us cut mental health in other of the jurisdictions that are currently within the budget.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Mental health is not being cut in the budget, sir. We've added $5.2 million. I'm asking you specifically about this one. I know you want to interject and talk about other stuff, and I get that, but I want to ask you about some other measures, because if they're good, Canadians should know that there are medical professionals who actually think they're good. Fair enough?
Past-President, Canadian Medical Association
That's correct. Give credit where credit is due.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Let's continue. Mental health, you said, is good.
What about promoting cost-effective health care with $6.5 million for a research project at McMaster University to make the health case system more cost effective? Accountability is an important issue for you, I heard you say. Is this a good measure?
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thank you.
What about advancing knowledge and treatment of spinal cord injury and partnering with the Rick Hansen Institute on research and care?
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thank you.
What about diversifying Canada's medical isotope supply with $17 million over two years to further develop alternatives to existing isotope production technologies?
