Finance Committee on Nov. 7th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Marston, you have just over two minutes, please.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks.

Mr. Hoback talked about transparency and being straightforward with things, and I think that's very important. I think Canadians expect that of us.

Beyond the fact that this bill is significantly flawed, we've had witness after witness here talking about who was getting sideswiped by it. Ms. Stoddart spoke of privacy concerns, another area of this bill that's significantly flawed.

Mr. Smith, are you aware that Mr. Oakey of Merit Canada—I want to say that, to be very clear here, because he's one of the people testifying—a direct competitor of your organization, has had unprecedented access to the PMO and other senior Conservatives not only once or twice, but 72 times, and he's met with Conservative MPs, senior staff, dozens of times between October 22 and October 24 alone? After hearing testimony here today, sir, would you say that Merit had the possibility of making significant financial gains if this bill is passed?

[James E. Smith]

Oh, absolutely. It's a dream come true for the Merit shop.

As to those visits to the PMO, I didn't know the numbers, but I sure know the unions won't get that number.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Hunter, we've had testimony at this committee implying that Bill C-377 would cost the federal government a lot of money—several million dollars, in fact—to put into place and then to carry forward year after year. You've given some pretty clear study to this. You've brought forward your concerns. Your brief is very direct. Do you have any idea of the scale of the costs to the federal government?

[Cameron Hunter]

Unfortunately, I do not. What I will say is that I practise in the province of Ontario, and about four or five years ago the Ontario government had a commission on pension plans. One of the issues that came out of that was the information collected by the provincial pension regulator and the difficulties in getting information from that. I understand that regulatory body has had to invest substantial sums to deal with the information they collect on those plans.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, great. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Marston.

We'll go to Mr. Jean, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses who have come here today.

I have a confession, Mr. Chair, and I apologize. I have not had a chance to meet with Mr. Oakey, but I have met with about nine union bosses in the last week, including Teamsters Canada every couple of weeks over the last five years. I simply want to make that confession here.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I can't absolve you, Mr. Jean--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Oh, I'm sorry. I do want to say, too, that I do that because I—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

--but I do appreciate your confession.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

--represent more union members, I think, than everybody else in the place combined. My riding is Fort McMurray—Athabasca. I've lived there 47 years. I've also been a union member, so I want to make that confession here. I have many brothers and sisters, one of whom belongs to the carpenters union in Fort McMurray and has belonged there for 35 years.

I confess all that and hope I get absolved; I hope I can get.... I hope you can forgive me.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

It's absolution.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It's absolution. Thank you. I can't even pronounce it.

Mr. Chair, I find it ironic that only the Canadian government would give a tax break to people to lobby against public policy, such as foundations, in this country. I always found that very interesting indeed.

In this particular case, I sold office supplies and printing to unions. I was a lawyer as well, and I sold those services to union and non-union members. In fact, I printed for Suncor for 15 years and provided office supplies and printing to them. I don't see any way that information being published on a website would be a competitive advantage for anyone. I simply cannot see how it would, and I've been in business for a long, long time.

First of all, Mr. Mortimer, I want to commend you on your testimony. I thought it was excellent. In my past life as a lawyer, when I was representing union members, I found exactly what you found in some of your dialogue here earlier.

[John Mortimer]

What would you like me to specifically address?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'd like you to address how it could be a competitive advantage to have something published on a website. I remember printing memo pads for Suncor that I printed for $3.77 per 100. Since the quantity and quality won't be published, I don't see how it could be a competitive advantage at all.

[John Mortimer]

Yes, I don't see it either. I think the point that Mr. Smith is endeavouring to make is that it's a competitive advantage when people who are facing a union organizing campaign could actually have financial information about the organization that you could be compelled to be a member of, could be compelled to pay dues to, and could put them out of work if they went offside of the union boss. Enabling people to have the information to make an informed decision during a union drive, which is something that unionized Canadians clearly say they think they should be entitled to, is quite a concept.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In fact, from my understanding of the surveys, although I don't have the figures in front of me, the highest percentage of people who want transparency in unions is found in Quebec, but it's well over 80% across the country. Is that correct?

[John Mortimer]

Yes. It's 86% higher than the union-free Canadians.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm curious about the people who are advocating against this bill. If this particular bill had amendments to exempt information on health trusts and exempt personal information to take care of the privacy concerns, would you support this bill?

This goes to anyone who is advocating against Bill C-377.

Mr. Watson, would you comment?

[Neil Watson]

My primary concern would be pensions and health and welfare—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

If those issues were taken care of, would you support the bill?

[Neil Watson]

I don't know whether you'd be getting sufficient reward for the risk.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

My question is whether you would support the bill if those two amendments were made—

[Neil Watson]

As I say—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

—because those were the only two concerns you brought forward.