Finance Committee on Nov. 25th, 2013

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chairman.

I would like to come back to Ms. Arruda. Your organization assists unemployed individuals. Of course, unemployed individuals who have lost their job go to see you to talk about their circumstances so that you can help them.

Let us be clear that the official closing, abolition or dissolution of the Canada Employment Insurance Financing Board is something that was added to the reform, that had started before the bill was tabled. Pilot projects will end, including the five additional weeks of benefits for those living in areas of high unemployment.

The reform included many things, including pilot projects for the changes contained in the bill, such as the quota system, the elimination and replacing referees by the Social Security Tribunal. As well, organizations like your own, third parties, will no longer be able to officially represent unemployed individuals before the tribunal. What has your experience been and what is your vision of an overall reform from the perspective of helping those who are most vulnerable?

[Marie-Hélène Arruda]

There will certainly be a decrease in benefits. The elimination of arbitration boards and the new mandatory administrative review process and the Social Security Tribunal alone are already discouraging the unemployed. Some of them will decline their right to appeal because of the administrative procedures and the lengthy delays. Those individuals will not receive benefits when they might have had a right to them. There is a "black hole". Those benefits will no longer be paid out.

Furthermore, according to the new criteria, individuals who turn down supposedly appropriate employment will not be able to receive benefits for between 7 to 12 weeks. One could even imagine, if you think about this, there being an employment insurance surplus, although I am not an accountant. Certainly, the benefits being paid will go down. This reform will have a direct effect on the unemployed who will receive less benefits. The abolition of the Canada Employment Insurance Financing Board is one more nail being hammered in by this entire reform. It affects many aspects of the Employment Insurance Act.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Marie-Hélène Arruda]

It is not necessarily to the advantage of the unemployed.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I imagine that in your situation you are seeing several cases of distress due to the implementation of this reform, which would not have been the case otherwise.

[Marie-Hélène Arruda]

Yes. Things were already going badly. Access to the program has just been made harder. The process is becoming more difficult and more painful for the unemployed.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

I am now going to ask a question of Ms. Yalnizyan.

Your presentation was clear. You referred to the abuse by the government of 500- to 600-page omnibus bills that include just about anything when they should deal with budget measures.

Something else should be noted. Most committees, and the government in general, decided to prevent, to a certain extent, independent members from bringing forward amendments because they are not sitting at the table and they do not have a voice. Only those members who belong to an official party in the House can attend and fully participate in the procedures.

However, they found a way around the system and told them that if they wanted to bring forward amendments, they could do that at the Standing Committee on Finance or other relevant committees. What that means is that if they have an opportunity to propose amendments in a specific committee, then they can no longer table them and speak to them in the House. Were you aware of this measure?

[Armine Yalnizyan]

No, I didn't know about that.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

What are your comments?

[Armine Yalnizyan]

I've been listening to this conversation and I am grateful to be part of it. I'm grateful to be part of these very respectful questions of small business and of the unemployed. I'm sitting here thinking that this piece of legislation needs to be split apart between fiscal measures and non-fiscal measures, and the parts that are non-fiscal, that are recreating huge pieces of public policy—huge pieces of public policy—with zero scrutiny, need to themselves be treated separate and apart. There is absolutely no way this process, which is designed to introduce amendments, is going to deliver that sort of thing because of the nature of where we're at.

It really saddens me to watch our democratic institutions, which are here to prevent this kind of railroading of public policy and to permit scrutiny and democratic discussion, not being permitted to anymore. We're in a democracy. We have these tools at our disposal and we can't do it. We're going to talk about small business and the unemployed. With due respect, that isn't what we're here to discuss. We're here to discuss a piece of legislation, a project for implementing a budget, our second budget implementation bill, that stuffs even more things that have got nothing to do with a budget in it, that can actually rewrite Canadian history when it comes to immigration, to selecting a Supreme Court justice, to defining what is health and safety of workers.

That strikes me as improbable, that we are having this discussion about where should we go from here on small business taxes. That isn't what this bill is about.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci, monsieur Caron.

Mr. Hoback, please.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you, ladies, for being here tonight.

I'm just going to try to get some clarification on where your positions are on different things. My first question is the hiring credit for small businesses.

Do you think it will encourage job creation, Ms. Moreau?

[Monique Moreau]

Certainly. For many of our members—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay. I don't have a lot of time, and I have a lot of questions, so yes or no? I kind of know....

[Monique Moreau]

Yes, it will.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay.

Ms. Yalnizyan? I'm sorry if I pronounce your name wrong.

[Armine Yalnizyan]

No, that's fine.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I'll get it right by the end.

Do you think it will encourage the hiring credit for small business? Do you think it will actually encourage job creation?

[Armine Yalnizyan]

I think it is a help to those companies that were close to making that hiring decision anyway. I don't think that is enough money to make somebody turn around and say, “I think I'll hire that person.”

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay, so you think it should be more money.

Okay, then—

[Armine Yalnizyan]

No, I don't think it should be more money, sir—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

You don't think so?

[Armine Yalnizyan]

—but thank you for filling in the rest of my sentence.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Oh, I didn't mean to do that. I just was asking. Okay.

Closing tax loopholes: do you think we need to be doing this to keep the integrity of our tax system in place?

[Monique Moreau]

Yes.