Evidence of meeting #24 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Okay.
Yes, absolutely. That's been documented over and over again, and talked about. Again, we don't have official statistics as to who are unpaid interns, how frequently this occurs, in what industries it occurs, but we know it's happening and we know a lot of kids can't afford to do it.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Given the rapidity of change in labour markets today, is there a need for us to reform our education and training and our student loan programs to reflect that change? For instance, if the skill requirements change throughout a person's career, shouldn't funding for student aid change or be available at various stages? Currently, there really hasn't been a significant change in the way we fund student aid. It's based on the old paradigm that you get educated once, and that's it for life. Should we be looking at an overhaul of how we do that, with the expectation that people have to change their skills?
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
What would be wrong with making it cheaper to get a post-secondary education, rather than having people pay more? You can talk about debt and borrowing money, but if the goal is a knowledge society, and you want kids to have the best education possible...? Education isn't the solution, but it's better than ignorance, so why not? Why not make it really cheap for people of any age to upgrade their skills?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Brison.
We'll go to Mr. Saxton for the final round, please.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Poschmann, in the past the C.D. Howe Institute has highlighted the need for looser restrictions or lower barriers for entering the skilled trades. Budget 2014 provided over $100 million, as you know, for the new Canada apprentice loan, providing tens of thousands of apprentices with access to interest-free loans.
Will this investment in the skilled trades help address the skills mismatch and youth unemployment?
Vice-President, Research, C.D. Howe Institute
Thank you for the question.
First, a general word of support for apprenticeship programs. They're terrific ways to enter the labour force and build lifetime income.
My broader concern would be around the terms of the programs, whether they are portable from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In other words, is a requirement for crane operator A in Quebec transportable to Ontario in similar employment? Are the journeymen-to-apprenticeship ratios reasonable? Are the number of hours reasonable? Plenty of them have numbers around 2,000 to 3,000. Depending on what it is, that sounds just fine.
Armine mentioned 9,000 hours. I don't know which ones would have 9,000 hours, but I know they do exist; 9,000 hours would allow you to just about complete a residency in neurosurgery, so you have to wonder about that.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Okay, thank you.
Armine, you brought up the issue of the cost of transporting oneself to these regions where jobs are available. You suggested a $5,000 grant, I think it is, or gift to people who are willing to make that move. Keeping in mind that these young Canadians who are making this move are going to significant, highly paid jobs, why would we be giving them...? I agree with you that we need to facilitate their getting to the area where they can get the job, but it would make more sense, I would think, to give them a loan or an interest-free loan to get there, which they then pay back once they start earning these high incomes. Does that not make more sense than the government just handing them a cheque for $5,000?
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I guess there would be a reason to say why would we give them money, but why doesn't it feel that way when you give money to businesses and subsidize them? Why do young people get no breaks?
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Hang on a second. How are we giving money to businesses?
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Wage subsidies, that's another thing that can be done, and tax breaks.
Conservative
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Look, you know who creates jobs, Mr. Saxton? Consumers create jobs. Businesses can't create jobs unless somebody's buying what they are making. If you have too many people who are unemployed, nobody's buying enough stuff, so in fact it's the consumer who makes jobs.
Conservative
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Fair enough, but if you can't get a job, you can't buy anything.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Okay. Thank you.
My next question is for Tammy Schirle.
We're talking about baby boomers staying longer, working longer, living longer. What impacts will baby boomer retirement have on youth unemployment in the coming years?
Associate Professor, Department of Economics, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
I think this comes back to what Finn was mentioning about the lump of labour fallacy. There's really absolutely no evidence that there's a connection between youth labour market outcomes and the size of the labour force that's taken up by older workers. There's not a direct connection between those two things.
So as they retire out, there isn't necessarily going to be a whole lot of new jobs for young people. In fact, they will reduce their consumption levels when they retire, meaning they are not buying as much stuff. That might actually reduce job opportunities for young people. These two things can play off each other so it's not obvious.
I will plug some research being done by my student, Sundip Dhanjal, who is trying to crunch the numbers to tease out if there is a relationship there. She is finding absolutely nothing significant between the two.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you, Mr. Saxton.
On behalf of the entire committee I want to thank all of our witnesses for being with us here in Ottawa and by video conference. We appreciate your input into the committee. If you have anything further, please submit it to the clerk, and we will ensure all of the members of the committee get it.
Vice-President, Research, C.D. Howe Institute
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Colleagues, there's a very brief motion you should have in front of you. The committee has agreed to hold an informal meeting with a delegation from Nigeria in April, and I need someone to move this motion for administrative purposes.
It is moved by Mr. Cullen that the committee hold an informal meeting with the Nigerian delegation in April.
(Motion agreed to)
Thank you so much, colleagues. Thank you again to our witnesses.
The meeting is adjourned.