Finance Committee on May 29th, 2014

Evidence of meeting #39 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was amendment.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-31, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Ernewein General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Ted Cook Senior Legislative Chief, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Bernard Butler Director General, Policy Division, Policy, Communications and Commemoration Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs

Suzy McDonald Director General, Workplace Hazardous Materials Directorate, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Jason Wood Director, Policy and Program Development, Workplace Hazardous Materials Directorate, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Brian McCauley Assistant Commissioner, Canada Revenue Agency

Denise Frenette Vice-President, Finance and Corporate Services, Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency

Soren Halverson Senior Chief, Corporate Finance and Asset Management, Department of Finance

Wayne Foster Director, Securities Policies, Department of Finance

James Wu Chief, Financial Institutions Analysis, Department of Finance

Donald Roussel Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kash Ram Director General, Road Safety and Motor Vehicle Regulation, Department of Transport

Michel Leclerc Director, Regulatory Affairs Coordination, Department of Transport

Colin Spencer James Director, Policy and Program Design, Temporary Foreign Workers, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Darlene Carreau Chairperson, Trade-marks Opposition Board, Department of Industry

Paul Halucha

Nathalie Martel Director, Old Age Security Policy, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Thao Pham Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal Montreal Bridges, Department of Transport

France Pégeot Special Advisor to the Deputy Minister, Department of Justice

Ann Chaplin Senior General Counsel, Department of Justice

Atiq Rahman Director, Operational Policy and Research, Department of Employment and Social Development

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Yes.

(Clauses 317 to 329 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 330)

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We'll ask Mr. McKay to move LIB-18.

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Do you think we should go at this again, Chair?

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We'll consider LIB-18 moved. Do you want a recorded vote?

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Let's just do that.

(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

(Clause 330 agreed to)

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

We are all clear to clause 338.

(Clauses 331 to 338 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 339)

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We'll go to clause 339, Mr. McKay, if you could just move the amendment briefly.

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I can make your life wonderful, sir, by simply suggesting that the amendment to 330 is the amendment to 339.

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate that.

We'll apply the vote from LIB-18 to LIB-19.

(Amendment negatived)

(Clause 339 agreed to)

Can I group clauses 340 to 344?

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Yes.

(Clauses 340 to 344 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 345)

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We have LIB-20.

Go ahead, Mr. McKay.

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

It's the same application.

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

It's the same application as LIB-19.

(Amendment negatived)

We'll have a recorded vote on clause 345.

9:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It's a recorded vote.

(Clause 345 agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4)

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

There is no amendment for clauses 346 to 368. Can I group those together?

9:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Yes.

(Clauses 346 to 368 inclusive agreed to)

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I want to thank our officials here. That was a fascinating discussion at 10 o'clock at night. We appreciate that. Thank you.

We shall go to division 26, Reduction of Governor in Council Appointments. We have two clauses, 369 and 370.

(Clauses 369 and 370 agreed to)

We have division 27, Old Age Security Act, clauses 371 to 374.

Go ahead, M. Caron.

9:55 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Chair, I assume the officials should be with us.

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We'll wait for the officials.

We'll deal with clause 371.

Monsieur Caron, you have a question.

9:55 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Martel, I have a quick question.

How much does the government hope to save through the measures set out in division 27 of part 6?

May 29th, 2014 / 9:55 p.m.

Nathalie Martel Director, Old Age Security Policy, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

I have the numbers with me. Savings won't be achieved until 2027. The provision is expected to come into force by order in council around 2017. The current measures are expected to eliminate the backlog at Immigration Canada.

When immigrants in the parents and grandparents category who are subject to the new 20-year sponsorship rule start arriving in Canada, the provision will come into force. That will be as of 2017. A person will have had to live in Canada for at least 10 years in order to qualify for the guaranteed income supplement and old age security. This applies to income-tested benefits, so it deals mostly with the guaranteed income supplement. Given, then, that the person will have had to reside in Canada for at least 10 years, if they come to Canada in 2017, they will start receiving benefits in 2027. And since the person will still be sponsored at that point, they won't be able to receive the benefits. They will have to wait another 10 years. So we won't see the savings until 2027, because that is when the difference in the status quo will be felt.

10 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Can the post-2027 savings be estimated today?

10 p.m.

Director, Old Age Security Policy, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Nathalie Martel

I'll give you the figures for that. It is estimated that, in 2027, the savings will be $23 million. And that amount will increase gradually until it reaches the annual cap of $700 million in 2036.

10 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you kindly.

I say savings, but obviously I use the word as the government understands it.

There is much talk of creating opportunities and the substantial economic contribution immigrants make, but in our view, this provision discourages the reunification of families. The government touts its promotion of economic immigration as a vehicle to help Canada recover from the economic downturn and assist families. Why go after these kinds savings? Ultimately, the savings expected in 2027 will be penny-wise and pound foolish. I can't seem to figure out the real reason the government put forward these measures. I don't think we'll be able to support them.

10 p.m.

Director, Old Age Security Policy, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Nathalie Martel

May I say something?