Finance Committee on Oct. 7th, 2014

[Jayson Myers]

I think they could probably find a use for it.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay. I just have some difficulty with the $50 million figure, with all due respect.

I don't know if you want to take a moment to respond to that.

[Shawn Murphy]

Sure.

You gave the automotive industry $400 million for an investment fund, and they employ, let's say, 110,000 in direct employment, and only in southern Ontario. Co-ops employ 650,000 across the country.

We don't want $400 million; we want $50 million.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

That's fair enough.

Mr. Mueller, what's the average home price in a big city like Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal these days?

[Thomas Mueller]

Vancouver is very high. In the city of Vancouver proper it would be $800,000 or something like that. Toronto is probably not far behind, $650,000 or something like that.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

That's the average, right?

[Thomas Mueller]

That's the average—in the city proper.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

The median is probably even higher.

[Thomas Mueller]

It depends on the region. The region is probably lower. The region of greater Vancouver is about $500,000, I think.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

How much would you be adding to the cost of an average home by regulating it to be green? I'm not saying we shouldn't go down this road; I'm just curious.

[Thomas Mueller]

If you're talking about new home construction to, say, make energy improvements, I would say probably $15,000 or maybe $20,000. It's not a huge investment, actually.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

This would also affect.... You mentioned that the home-building industry is an almost $7-trillion global industry.

[Thomas Mueller]

It's the entire building industry, not just homes.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay.

There are very low barriers to entry to this kind of industry. There are even individuals who can go out and build a home, and there are big companies that build homes, so would not those big home companies be the ones that are able to absorb that kind of money in the construction of these new homes, rather than the individual? Maybe Mr. Cullen wants to get into the home-building business and build a home that he bought on speculation, and he wants to resell it, so wouldn't that benefit the big companies more, as opposed to somebody like Mr. Cullen?

[Thomas Mueller]

The thing with the big companies is that these are for-profit companies. That's what we call in the industry the “split incentive”. They buy to sell, not to own. If you build to own, then you're fine, because you can get the payback over time and the paybacks are very advantageous. But if you buy to sell, anything that you invest in the building you're selling is an extra cost.

But we do see large developers making that investment and actually benefiting from it quite well. We also have also very many small home builders—

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm sorry. I just need to get on to Mr. Myers.

[Thomas Mueller]

Yes, yes, but you get the point, right?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I do.

Mr. Myers—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Very briefly, Mr. Adler. You have about 30 seconds.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Our government recently announced a 15% reduction in EI taxes for the next two years. Businesses would benefit from that, correct?

[Jayson Myers]

Yes. Any reduction in EI taxes is going to be a very good....

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Is the 15% reduction in EI taxes better than a two-year exemption for new hires? The NDP has said that it won't work because the EI money belongs to the workers and the businesses, not the government. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Just a brief response, please.

[Jayson Myers]

I really haven't run the numbers on that. I think any—