Evidence of meeting #6 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was account.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ted Cook  Senior Legislative Chief, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Sean Keenan  Director, Sales Tax Division, Department of Finance
Geoff Trueman  General Director (Analysis), Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Pierre Mercille  Senior Legislative Chief, GST Legislation, Department of Finance
Annette Ryan  Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Michael Duffy  Director, Legislative Policy Analysis, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Ray Cuthbert  Director, CPP/EI Rulings Division, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency
François Masse  Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
Jeremy Rudin  Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Soren Halverson  Senior Chief, Corporate Finance and Asset Management, Department of Finance
Tim Gardiner  Director, Energy Systems Management, Petroleum Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Mitch Bloom  Vice-President, Policy, Planning, Communications and Northern Projects Management Office, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency
Dennis Duggan  Senior Policy Analyst, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Drew Heavens  Senior Director, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Don Graham  Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Dora Benbaruk  Director and General Counsel, Treasury Board Secretariat Legal Services, Department of Justice

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren

I'm in the chair.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Regarding employment insurance, how about the hiring credit for small business? Does that fall within your category?

5:05 p.m.

Director, CPP/EI Rulings Division, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Ray Cuthbert

That we can do.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Thank you.

In recognition of the challenges faced by small businesses across the country, budget 2011 announced a temporary hiring credit for small business of up to $1,000 per employer. Could you please give me the rationale for that?

5:05 p.m.

Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance

François Masse

Yes, sir.

The credit was created in recognition of the important role small businesses play as job creators in the Canadian economy. It was in the context of the economic downturn. It was a decision taken to reduce the burden on small businesses, so as to help them create jobs.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

With regard to the hiring credit, is this an increase from 2011 when it was introduced?

5:05 p.m.

Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance

François Masse

The hiring credit was created in 2011. It was renewed in 2012. In 2013 it was extended and expanded. I would turn to Ray for the details on how it has been expanded.

5:05 p.m.

Director, CPP/EI Rulings Division, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Ray Cuthbert

Apart from the years involved, which is the extension, the expansion is the ceiling in the base year. The amount of employer EI premiums required has gone from $10,000 to $15,000. Employers who have employer EI premiums in the base year, which is 2012, of $15,000 or less can qualify for a credit. That's the expansion. It has gone from $10,000 to $15,000.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Thank you. I have no further questions, Chair.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren

I want to go back to something our previous chair tried to clarify. I think there's still some confusion with the EI fund. I wonder if we could ask you, Mr. Masse, to provide some history for the committee. You mentioned this began back in the 1980s and in the 1990s there was no money left.

The intent is for the premiums to be paid out when necessary; it's not to build some massive fund. I think that's what we tried to clarify a little bit earlier: the transparency part of this was that people could see where the moneys were going.

Could you provide the history of the fund as it grew and as that money was taken out? Sometimes if we put things on a piece of paper, it's a whole lot clearer.

5:10 p.m.

Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance

François Masse

Here are you referring to pre-2009 or post-2009?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren

I'd like to see it go back possibly to maybe 1986 or something like that, if that's possible.

5:10 p.m.

Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance

François Masse

Absolutely we can do that, yes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Dave Van Kesteren

Okay.

Do we have any questions from the NDP?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Sorry about the musical chairs.

We have about 20 minutes left and we have a number of divisions to get to.

That is it for division 1, as I understand it. I want to thank our officials very much for being with us this afternoon and this evening. We appreciate your answers very much.

Colleagues, I understand we do not have questions on division 2, Financial Institutions, so we will not need those officials to come forward.

As I understand it, I'm hoping we do not have questions on division 3.

Mr. Hsu, do you have a question you want to state for the record? We have 18 divisions to get through. Unless we stay later tonight or we add another session, I'm not sure we can do this.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

I would like to ask it, but I can state it, and then, hopefully, Mr. Chair, you would let somebody ask it. I'm not the chair, but if I could state it, that would....

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have one question on division 3, then.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Yes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay.

Let's bring forward those two officials from Finance, and hopefully we can get this question dealt with very quickly.

This is part 3, division 3, Financial Institutions (Investment).

We'll just wait until the two officials get settled.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

As soon as you give me a nod or something, I'll start.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Yes.

We'll welcome Mr. Rudin and Ms. Ryan back to the committee.

Thank you for joining us here this evening.

Mr. Hsu, your question, please.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Thank you.

I think this is something that only officials can answer.

I understand that the intent of this section on foreign financial institutions is to tighten a perceived gap in the finance minister's authority that was established in Bill S-5. How was this gap in the minister's authority uncovered? How did we discover this gap?

November 18th, 2013 / 5:10 p.m.

Jeremy Rudin Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

After Bill S-5 was passed, in discussions with some representatives of the industry, it was brought to our attention that some members of the industry were of the view that not all of the transactions the government intended to be covered by this provision would necessarily be covered by this provision. They contended that it would depend on how the transaction was structured. The government's position is that this needs to be clear and that this amendment will create that clarity.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Okay. That's it.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much, Mr. Hsu.

I want to thank our two officials for being here. Thank you for answering that question so directly.

We'll now move to division 7, which deals with Dominion Coal Blocks.

We have officials from Finance and officials from NRCan. I understand one of you has a very brief opening statement on this.

Mr. Halverson, you have the opening statement. Please proceed.