Finance Committee on Nov. 5th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are you ready there now?

Okay.

[Eleanor Ryan]

I was at proposed section 627.49, and I had highlighted paragraph (i), and I was about to highlight paragraphs (j) and (k).

These are two requirements for the external complaints bodies to report annually to the commissioner of the FCAC on the performance of their functions, including their governance and funding, and to also have reports made publicly available. Taken as a group, these are intended to increase transparency and public confidence in the complaint handling process.

This concludes my overview of the consumer protection measures in the bill. We're available to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Who are we starting with?

We'll have Mr. Kmiec, and then Mr. Julian.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

You want me to go first. I thought that Greg was raising his hand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Tom. I don't think you've been through this process before. When we have departmental witnesses, there is no limit on time in questions and we bounce around.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to bounce around a little bit too. Forgive me for this, but under “Definitions” and dealing with customers and the public, it says a “business day does not include a Saturday or a holiday” but a lot of banks are open on Saturdays. Their branches are open and operating. Can you explain to me the logic of not calling a Saturday a business day when, for the banks, it often is a business day?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead.

[Jean-François Girard, Director, Consumer Affairs, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

This definition is already in the legislation. The reason is that this is used for the calculation of certain delays and timing in the act. We just wanted to keep the status quo in terms of the number of days that pass when certain events occur. It's a reference. It doesn't define when they can or can't do business.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Okay. I'll go to the whistle-blowing sections, and then I'll let other members ask questions.

On the back end, page 304—it's a big omnibus bill—under “Whistleblowing”, is there a duty to protect whistle-blowers, and if so, can you point it out to me in this section?

[Jean-François Girard]

The protections are provided for under proposed subsection 979.4(1) and below.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

But it doesn't actually say there's a duty to protect whistle-blowers. The government estimates and operations committee, back in June 2017, when it came to the public service, said that there should be a legislated duty to protect the whistle-blowers, because that does a better job of actually protecting those people. Reading this, I don't see any penalty, either. Is there a penalty for not following these rules, and what is it?

[Jean-François Girard]

The penalties would be the same as in the other parts of the act, so they are the same penalties.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Which would be...?

[Eleanor Ryan]

There are, sorry, civil penalties.

[Jean-François Girard]

Yes, so in the civil penalties, it's up to $10 million per violation. You do have an offence under the act being a criminal offence that could be prosecuted as well in principle.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

There is no duty to protect and the civil penalties are up to $10 million. There could be criminal proceedings against bank employees who go after whistle-blowers.

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

We have Mr. Fergus, and then Mr. Julian.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much. Similar to the questions that were asked in terms of the penalties, I'm taking a look again back to clause 329. If you wish, it's division 2, proposed section 627.03, when you talk about false or misleading information. You move on in proposed section 627.04 about prohibited conduct.

What are the penalties for the banks or financial institutions for not complying with these legislative clarifications as to what is considered to be prohibited actions?

[Jean-François Girard]

They're the same. The—

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It's the same throughout the whole....

[Jean-François Girard]

Yes, the limits are set in the FCAC Act and they apply to all the provisions under the administration of the agency.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Girard, you will recognize the killer question.

Over the past five years, how often has your organization imposed penalties on financial institutions, and how large were they?

[Jean-François Girard]

I'm a Director at the Finance department. I'll ask Ms. Goulard to answer you.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Fine.

[Brigitte Goulard, Deputy Commissionner, Financial Consumer Agency of Canada]

Good afternoon. Thank you for your question.

The financial sanctions we impose are not all the same. We use several tools to ensure that the banks do the right thing. A small percentage of banks were subject to sanctions. We sometimes conclude compliance agreements with them to ensure that pro-consumer measures will be taken.

Over the past year, we imposed a few sanctions. Thanks to the measures we took under the powers we have, over $6 million were returned to more than a million clients, and that is what's important. The new powers the bill gives us will allow us to take even more measures so that Canadians will be reimbursed.