Finance Committee on Dec. 11th, 2018

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I can tell you that, as far as I'm concerned, everyone is and will be treated fairly and equitably.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Yes, but what signal is being sent when Mr. Kolber, who is named in the Paradise Papers, makes donations to your Liberal association?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

As far as I'm concerned, everyone will be treated fairly and equitably.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Why did you accept that donation from a well-known taxpayer, a former Liberal senator named in the Paradise Papers as a result of his trust in the Cayman Islands? Why did you accept that donation from him?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I'm telling you, I'm repeating to you, and I will repeat indefinitely that, as far as I'm concerned, everyone will be treated fairly and equitably.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Then why didn't you refuse to accept that donation? What appearance does that project? What signal does it send to taxpayers?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Everyone will be treated fairly and equitably.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Those are just words.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Sir, if you came and visited my riding, given my reputation there, everyone would tell you that I treat people fairly and equitably. It's a point of honour for me.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

That's too bad because the signal it sends is that rich taxpayers in Montreal are making donations to you, that the two-tiered system is in place and has been in existence for the three years you've been in your position and that the rich get favourable treatment. We already knew that, but the Auditor General has confirmed once again that the rich get favourable treatment. You're preserving that system.

I'll move on to another subject because I know my speaking time is limited. I want to go back to something you've said many times. A year ago, on December 7, 2017, you said you were in the process of recovering $25 billion. You also said, in December 2017, that people had received their notices of assessment and that the agency would successfully collect those funds.

One year later, Minister, how much of that $25 billion have you managed to recover?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I can tell you that our government has made historic investments in the fight against tax evasion. We're the first government that has invested nearly $1 billion in the fight against tax evasion. Furthermore, under our leadership, the agency has hired 1,300 auditors and conducted twice as many audits relating to offshore activities as were done under the Harper government.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Minister, you promised to recover $25 billion. How much money have you actually recovered?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Federal tax amounts associated with convictions have increased from $12.5 million in 2014-2015 to $45.4 million in 2017-2018.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Minister, how much of that $25 billion have you recovered as you promised a year ago? Do you have an exact amount?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I'm going to turn the floor over to the commissioner. He can answer your question.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

No, that's fine. He'll be appearing shortly for an hour and 15 minutes.

Let's quickly move on to another subject. When we saw each other the last time, you said there had been 38 convictions for tax evasion, but you repeated in the House that there had been 78 convictions for tax evasion. However, when we questioned you, you couldn't say exactly how many of those convictions were related to offshore tax evasion.

Today, in December 2018, now that you've been in your position for three years, how many convictions have you won for offshore tax evasion?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

As I told you, we've hired 1,300 new auditors and conducted twice as many audits as the Harper government did in the 10 years of its mandate.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

I know you conduct audits, but is that resulting in convictions?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

The Canada Revenue Agency is currently conducting audits in more than 1,100 cases and criminal investigations in more than 50 offshore tax evasion cases. Our plan is working, and we're starting to see results.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

If your plan was working, there'd be convictions today, but you've mentioned none.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fergus, you'll have only five minutes..

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for appearing before the committee today. It's very kind on your part.

I have to express my disappointment with opposition members who try to denigrate the political contributions process by giving Canadians the impression that all those people who make donations aren't subject to the same rules. However, we know that all Canadians who make political contributions are subject to an amount limit, which, I believe, is $1,500 now, without expecting anything in return. So I find what's happening here really disappointing.

Thank you for being with us and for your patience, Minister.

The opposition members are trying by their questions to make us believe that the agency isn't doing its job in combating tax frauds who are named in the Panama Papers and instead is harassing other Canadians. Can you tell us where the analysis that your agency is conducting stands?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I thank my colleague for his important question.

According to my information, the Canada Revenue Agency has identified more than 3,000 foreign entities associated with more than 2,600 owner beneficiaries who have connections with Canada, and it has already audited 80% of them. We have chosen to tighten the rules of the voluntary disclosures program, the VDP, to prohibit access to taxpayers who are named in the Panama Papers or in information leaks.

Under my leadership, we have struck a committee to determine how to tighten the agency's rules in tax evasion cases as well as the rules of the VDP. In the first year of my mandate, we began to review four countries a year under country-to-country agreements. When the agency intervenes with respect to a country, people who have assets in that country no longer have access to the VDP.

So we're doing everything necessary to ensure all taxpayers pay their fair share. I've said this, and I'll repeat it: we've given the agency tools to tighten the vice. I invite people to disclose their information voluntarily before the agency begins looking into what's going on in a particular country as part of the country-to-country exchange of information.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Minister, can you confirm that these measures designed to combat the tax frauds named in the Panama Papers are unusual in the agency's history?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Pardon me, but I'd don't really understand your question.