Finance Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

No, fair enough.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

—but I will allow the question. I'll allow it.

[Trevor McGowan]

I just conferred with my colleague. We don't know the contents of that meeting. But to reiterate something my colleague had mentioned about timing, the treaty had already been negotiated by that point. In fact, I don't know if a significant portion or all had been negotiated under the previous government.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay.

I do appreciate the comments the chair made that you certainly don't work in the finance minister's office, but you do work, obviously, at the Department of Finance to my understanding. On September 24, 2018 SNC-Lavalin officials met with Richard Botham, assistant deputy minister, economic development and corporate finance, at Finance Canada; with Paul Rochon, deputy minister, Finance Canada; and Tasha Hanes, chief of staff of the deputy minister of Finance about—and here I'm going to quote from the Commissioner of Lobbying's report—“Industry, International Relations, Justice and Law Enforcement”.

Do you know what that meeting was about?

[Trevor McGowan]

No, we do not.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

The same day, September 24, 2018, SNC-Lavalin officials met with the Minister of Finance and his chief of staff about justice and law enforcement, international relations and industry again. Do you know what that meeting was about?

[Trevor McGowan]

No, we do not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are these questions related to the tax treaty?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

They certainly may be. That's what we don't know, right? That's why they're important questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

On July 12, 2018, SNC-Lavalin officials met with Julian Ovens, chief of staff to the Minister of International Trade, and Phil Rheault, senior policy adviser to the Minister of International Trade, on, among other things, international trade and international relations. Do you know what came up at that meeting?

[Trevor McGowan]

No, I do not. My colleague helpfully reminded me that perhaps I was a bit vague in my description of when the treaty was signed. It was November 24, 2016.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay.

There has been a series of meetings here. It sounds to me as though we have a bit of a pattern and you're not aware of it. I can give you some other dates of some other meetings, but would you be able to get back to us on what those meetings would have been about? Again, on July 12, 2018, there was a meeting with Paul Rochon, deputy minister of finance; Rick Stewart, assistant deputy minister of international trade and finance; and Ava Yaskiel, associate deputy minister at Finance. On February 9, 2018, SNC-Lavalin officials met with Rick Stewart, assistant deputy minister, international trade and finance, at Finance Canada; and with Jonathan Fried, coordinator of international and economic relations at Global Affairs Canada. So there's been this whole series of meetings, and what we would like to know is what those meetings were about. Could you maybe endeavour to get back to us on that? We don't know if those are related to this or not. The bottom line is that this seems to be a pattern. There seems to be some pretty unprecedented access to this government by SNC-Lavalin. In fact, they even met with one of the members of this committee on February 27, 2019. They met with the member for Northumberland-Peterborough South.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Richards, there is a point of order here.

[Kim Rudd, Liberal, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Chair, I think we've just gone off topic with this. As the officials have stated, this was negotiated some time ago. It was signed in November 2016—I believe you said the 19th.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

November 24, I think.

[Kim Rudd, Liberal, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It was November 24. I apologize.

This is not within the scope of Bill S-6, and I would appreciate it if the member of the opposition who is going down this line of questioning would respect the officials and the position they're in and get back to the discussion of the bill.

Thank you.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

On this point of order, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

—I just want to raise the point that we are talking about a Canadian company dealing with Madagascar. This is exactly what this bill is all about. We are talking about having a free trade agreement with Madagascar, so we want to see some more Canadian businesses getting involved in the economy and also having some Madagascar companies getting involved in Canada's economy, which would be great. We do support everybody and do support the free trade agreement. We are all on that.

But this is exactly a clear example of what happens with this kind of bill. This is a Canadian company, well known, well established—maybe for good or for bad reasons, but this is exactly what we are talking about. We are talking about a deal with Canadian business going to Madagascar. This bill is addressing the free trade agreement with Madagascar and Canada. We are 100% on the target.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think I have no choice but to allow the questions, but I also will say, Mr. Richards, that I do not believe Mr. McGowan and Ms. Smith are in a position to answer to questions about meetings they were not involved in.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Chair. I thought maybe the member opposite was going to get in her point of order to indicate what her meeting was about when she met with SNC-Lavalin.

Anyway, maybe the officials could endeavour to go back to those who work in their department to find out what it was that those meetings were about and get back to the committee on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Would it be possible for you to tell us what Mr. Scheer's meeting was like with SNC, as well?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, I don't believe you are trying to be an impartial chair at this point. I think maybe it's best that—

[Kim Rudd, Liberal, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to answer the question.