Finance Committee on May 1st, 2019

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

We recognize that it's important that we go through the review and the discussions with the intervenors in this project in a way that respects their points of view. That process is going on.

I'm quite encouraged because the process is going on at the pace that I expected it to, and that—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Really, you expected it would take a year before any construction began?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Poilievre, the minister has the floor.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

As we have publicly stated, that is leading to our ability to get to a discussion on this on June 18. We're looking forward to—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

There has been lots of discussion. We know that you do nothing but discuss. We want a decision and construction.

Can you give us the date that you will announce the decision and the date construction will begin? Two dates are all I'm looking for.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

We want to be really clear with Canadians. This is an important project.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Please do be clear.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

We took this project on because we saw that there were challenges in achieving what we saw as the desired outcome, which was the ability to get our resources to international markets—an ability that the previous government was unsuccessful at achieving. We took on this project and we are now responding to the court decision in the way that the court directed us to. That is leading us to the culmination of that process on June 18.

We will have more to say for Canadians at that time.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

One last chance.... When will construction begin on the Trans Mountain project?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Again, we're looking forward to the conclusion of these discussions with the intervenors in the project. That process, which is moving forward, will lead us to have a conclusion that we'll be able to discuss with cabinet—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

You can't build a pipeline in Canada but you are funding the Asian infrastructure bank, which has, as part of its mandate, building pipelines in Asia. It is a China-led bank.

Given that you can't build pipelines in Canada and given that your deficit smashes all of your promises during the election, wouldn't it be a small, symbolic decision to at least cancel your wasteful investment in the Asian infrastructure bank?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I think one of the things we all, as elected representatives, should always keep in mind is that we want to make sure that Canadians and investors, both from here and abroad, can see the opportunities here. I was delighted yesterday morning to have the opportunity to meet again with the current and now incoming CEO of LNG Canada to talk about their significant investment in Canada—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I'm asking about the Asian infrastructure bank. It has nothing to do with the LNG project.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Pierre, the minister has a few more seconds to answer your questions. The floor is his.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

There were actually a number of things in the question. One of them was that we can get big projects done in Canada. That project includes a pipeline, which is going to be important in getting LNG to markets in Asia and beyond.

That's one good example of something—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Could I have a few more seconds, Mr. Chair?

The question was about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

He has the right to answer your question. He's answering it. You're out of time.

Do you have a quick answer, Minister?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I think I answered the question. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for having taken the time to come before us to explain your plan and budgetary measures. What I am most interested in is the fact that this is the last-chance budget for 2019. A lot of promises were not kept by your government up until now, and are not on the way to being kept. The first one concerns the elimination of subsidies to the fossil fuel sector. That was a clear and distinct promise made by the Liberal Party during the last election.

Since that time, you have done absolutely nothing. The only thing you've managed to announce in the recent budget is that Argentina is going to assess Canadian subsidies to fossil fuels. According to our most recent estimates, tax gifts of every kind totalling about $1.6 billion a year are being offered to businesses that are amongst the most profitable in the country, and are in the fossil fuel sector. That is the opposite of what the government's objective and priority should be, that is to say green energy. To get back to what my colleague mentioned, you invested $4.5 billion in a pipeline that has been around for 65 years and is leaking, and you intend to invest up to $10 billion in an expansion project that will double its capacity.

How do you explain that we are where we were in 2015? There are still $1.6 billion in subsidies for oil companies, and in addition you are giving $4.5 billion more to an American oil company based in Houston.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you very much for the question. It touches on an important point.

As you know, we have introduced several measures to improve our environment. We considered the approach that would be necessary to reduce carbon in our environment. Of course, we believe it is very important to put a price on pollution. In the long term, this will have an enormous impact on our environment. This approach will encourage companies and investors to consider investing large sums in that area. Of course, we made promises as to the way we could execute an important transition by 2025, and we are doing that. We are taking part in a process with Argentina, as you said.

Mr. Marsland will provide further details on what we have done up till now.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

There is a new process with Argentina, but I'd like to know when we will eliminate the subsidies for fossil fuels, and at least make good on that promise.

[Andrew Marsland, Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Tax-wise, there were nine explicit subsidies since the commitment made at the G20. Now there is only one of those subsidies left. As for the others, the government rationalized them.

That is including, most recently, a rationalization of the Canadian exploration expenses, the ability to pass through certain expenses and the commitment to allow the accelerated depreciation for LNG to expire as of 2025, which is the date of the G20 commitment to eliminate fossil fuel subsidies in the medium term, which is interpreted as 2025.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, that answers my question.

[Andrew Marsland]

With respect to the number, I'm not sure that we could substantiate the number you quoted, but we're willing to provide information to the committee, of course.