Evidence of meeting #52 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artists.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
You would agree with our infrastructure plan to ensure that it will stimulate economic growth?
President, Canadian Construction Association
Absolutely. Quality of infrastructure is directly related to how well the country does economically.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Atkinson.
My next question is for the petroleum producers. Ron Liepert is not here today, so I'll ask about pipelines. He's a member from Alberta who always talks about pipelines.
In your assessment, what would the impact of approving another pipeline have on your association's members?
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Approving a pipeline is only part of the equation. Getting it constructed and flowing a product to a market that's willing to buy it is the other part of the trick that we're focused on as well. I can give you a couple of quick numbers that may help you understand.
There's been some work done by different institutions in Canada. Each pipeline project would open up access to world markets. Each time you stall one, it costs Canada between $11 billion and $25 billion in forgone economic benefits on an annual basis.
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
I don't think there are any numbers specifically around that. If you include just the jobs related to approving a pipeline, there are probably quite a few, including a lot of lawyers apparently.
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
During the construction phase, it's a pretty heavy economic activity.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
I don't think we're too concerned about lawyers. I'm a lawyer myself. They find a way to eat.
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Absolutely.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you.
My last question is for the Canadian Steel Producers Association. I have a small business in my riding that ordered a container of steel from China and then got hammered with an anti-dumping duty. Now they're basically threatening bankruptcy because the duty is 200%.
What has China done to your industry? Is it that crippling? Do we need to have those anti-dumping duties at 200% in order to sustain the Canadian marketplace?
President, Canadian Steel Producers Association
Yes. Without knowing the nature of this steel that's in question, China's overcapacity has devastated the global steel industry, and it is a truly global problem. It's come up at the G20, and it's something that all nations are addressing.
The duties are set through a long process of investigation by the CBSA and the CITT where they determine injury to the Canadian vendor of a similar products. The CBSA, confirmed by the Canadian International Trade Tribunal, would have established that 200% is the degree to which China was subsidizing the product and then dumping it illegally in Canada. If that's the amount of the duty that's in place, then there is a really firm basis in free enterprise economics as to how that was determined.
October 27th, 2016 / 4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Parliament of Canada.
My first question asked will be to Mr. Ferguson of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. Welcome to the House of Commons, sir. I just want to be clear, you said that every year that we wait to have a new pipeline—and you used the example of Energy east, which I am concerned with because it's going through Quebec—it costs.... How much money have we lost every year?
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
There are different estimates, but total economic opportunity forgone is anywhere from $11 billion to $25 billion per year.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Okay, it was the right number I thought. It's amazing.
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
There are estimates that are higher, and it changes over time, depending on the differential price international markets versus North American markets, but it is significant.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
I can assure you that on this side of the House we do strongly support it, and yes, I'm a Quebecker, and I'm a proud, strong supporter of the Energy east project. As soon as it becomes possible, the better it will be for the Canadian economy and especially for the Quebec economy.
I would like to ask you some questions about the fact that the Prime Minister announced the imposition of the so-called Liberal carbon tax that will apply very soon. What will be the impact of this new Liberal tax for your business?
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Certainly, we have looked at that hard. As you know, we have a number of jurisdictions in which we operate, primarily in Alberta, British Columbia, and Saskatchewan, that have a variety of different instruments where we value carbon and do activities related to that. There's been, for example, in Alberta quite a significant amount of work on GHG reduction mitigation policies. There has been a carbon tax imposed there. There are also other costs related to that regulatory, as well, based on a value of those emissions.
British Columbia, as you know, has a carbon tax that has been in place for quite a few years now. Saskatchewan for its part has done a lot of work on investing in technologies related to carbon capture and storage. I think the first thing I would tell you is that our sector is not ill-prepared for dealing with and working in this kind of environment. I think, as we proceed and we go beyond at the upper ends of the announced price that we see, there would be a need to look hard at what that means for the competitive environment for investment and trade with other nations, and primarily the United States, which does not have anything near the stringency that we have in Canada on this issue.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
We all recognize that in Canada we produce 1.6% of les émissions de gaz à effet de serre, and it's not exactly the same thing for China or America, but those two great countries, those great economies, don't have that kind of a carbon tax. Our industry would have a huge price to pay if we want to be competitive on the international level.
Vice President, Policy and Performance, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Our approach to this is very much from the opportunity space. We know that putting a price on carbon drives the kind of innovation that we are seeing in our sector. That is really a lot of what's driven us forward. The energy efficiencies that we've created in our sector has been because we've put a price on carbon, ourselves. We still need to be very mindful of what effects in the long term and mid term it has on the Canadian economy as a whole, but we are at that challenge.
Conservative
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
One minute, okay. I will not have the time to ask another question. I just want to make the point that for us we are very concerned about the fact that the new carbon tax will have a huge impact on many businesses in our country, and especially for those who work in the petroleum sector. By the way, speaking of the petroleum sector, I'm sure you know that in a few weeks from now you will celebrate the 70th year anniversary of the discovery of the huge Leduc number 1 plan that launched a fantastic journey of petroleum in Alberta. We appreciate so much what you have done.
