Finance Committee on April 10th, 2017

[Christopher Meyers]

The department takes cybersecurity very seriously. There are a number of existing functions within the department that are dedicated to maintaining the security of the department from an IT perspective. With respect to information technology services more specifically, there are 26 full-time equivalent employees working in that particular area. They deliver information technology services within the department. Within that envelope, totalling about $2.5 million in salary, are the individuals who would be dedicated to, among other things, maintaining the security of the department and the security of the department's information.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

We've also heard quite a bit in the news about surveillance in the local areas around Parliament Hill. Do you believe and can you guarantee that your information is 100% secure?

[Christopher Meyers]

Speaking as an accountant of the department, I would say it's not exactly my speciality. I do know, though, that there are a number of qualified individuals working within the information technology group, both within the department and also within Shared Services Canada and other security-based agencies, who are committed to the security of the department's information. Beyond that, I wouldn't be qualified individually to speak to the security of information technology within the department.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I also would like to talk about domestic coinage, the Royal Canadian Mint. We had a change in the Royal Canadian Mint Act. Its voted statutory funding for purchase of domestic coinage has increased by about $8 million because they couldn't anticipate profit from the provision of coins for circulation.

Is there a possibility of moving towards a $5 or $10 coin at some point in order to reduce the costs of the Royal Canadian Mint? Obviously, it's not a priority of our government to be subsidizing or giving more funds to the Royal Canadian Mint, but is there a way that the mint can save more money?

[Christopher Meyers]

I'm not aware of any specific deliberations with respect to other denominations of coins. What I can say is that there is historical precedent with respect to removing coins from circulation such as in the case of the penny, which was designed to reduce costs with respect to penny production.

The comments you made earlier with respect to the $8-million increase in domestic coinage costs for 2017-18 is more of a reflection of adjustments to the Royal Canadian Mint Act that put back into place certain provisions that would ensure that the mint itself could generate enough profit to sustain operations.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

I just want to talk very quickly about the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. Sorry to jump around again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I see that somebody from that office is here. If they want to come to the table as well, they are welcome. If a question is asked that's related to your area of expertise, just pull up a chair.

Go ahead, Robert. Sorry.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I was just wondering if you could talk a bit about the estimates and what your office does and why you're requesting, obviously, additional funds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Michele Bridges is the managing director of finance and corporate planning. Go ahead.

[Michele Bridges, Managing Director, Finance and Corporate Planning, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions]

Good afternoon. Thank you for your question.

The Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions is responsible for regulating and supervising deposit-taking institutions; insurance companies, both life insurance and property and casualty insurance companies; as well as private pension plans that are in the federal jurisdiction. Basically it's organizations that span multiple provinces, such as the airlines or the rail companies as well as first nations' plans.

Our main estimates have a statutory voting component as well as a parliamentary appropriation. The parliamentary appropriation is a flat amount across the main estimates planning horizon, and that money is utilized by the office of the chief actuary, which provides services both for actuarial evaluation as well as advisory services to a number of benefits plans and pension plans across the federal government. It's also used for non-statutory purposes to provide services to the Treasury Board for things like public accounts, for example, or the valuation of various other plans such as the judges' pensions plans as well as the plans for MPs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Does that answer your question enough, Robert? We're over time, but I want to make sure that you have clarity in that question.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It's okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

The bells are ringing. There's a motion in the House. It's a 30-minute bell. We're probably down to 27 minutes, so we can go here for about seven or eight minutes. We'll watch the time. Are people okay with that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam, gentlemen, welcome to your House of Commons.

I am very pleased to address some questions to you, because I appreciate that everybody will recognize that we have some people here who rank very highly among civil servants, and especially the Minister of Finance. This is a huge issue for everybody. We're talking about billions of dollars. The last budget was $330 billion. We need strong people to address that, strong people to be sure that everything is going well, and we are very pleased to have those kinds of people in our civil service.

What you tabled a few minutes ago about the projections for this budget was very interesting, but I would like to go back to last October when the Department of Finance published a report on the reality of the situation of the public finances. In that report—and I have talked about it many times in the House of Commons, in interviews, and everywhere I go—there is key information, very important information, on page 14.

First of all, just to be sure we're talking about the same report, it's one that was tabled to the Minister of Finance on October 10. On page 14, this report expressed real concern—by our side and I hope by everybody in Canada—about the future of the administration of this country. If nothing changes, we will have zero deficit in 2055 and we'll have to address debt of $1.5 trillion in 2050.

Those figures, those numbers, came from a report made by the civil servants of the finance department, and we are very pleased to welcome you guys to our committee.

First of all, I would like to know why the Minister of Finance would publish that kind of report.

[Brad Recker, Director, Fiscal Policy Division, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

I'm Brad Recker from the fiscal policy division. We published that kind of a report to test or take a long-term view of the fiscal sustainability of the Canadian federal government. I think the key conclusion of that report is that the fiscal plan, if left to certain assumptions over the long term, is fully sustainable.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

For sure, it's quite a subject when we say, “It can walk. It can run.” For sure, if we do agree to have huge deficits and huge debt without a plan to get to zero deficit, maybe it's acceptable. But I can tell you that as a citizen, I do not accept that and I'm very concerned with this reality.

My other question is how do you get to this number? As you know, I have asked the Minister of Finance many times in the House, and a few minutes ago here in this committee, when Canada will get back to zero deficit. He can never give a clear answer. I asked for a date. He didn't answer. I asked for a horizon for the long term, short term, medium term, or I-don't-know-what term. He gave no answer at all.

So how can you civil servants evaluate that we'll get back to zero deficit in 2055? Let me remind everybody here that that will be 36 years later than the target established during the campaign by the actual government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There are certain questions, I know, that are within your purview to answer, and there are certain questions that, within your purview as civil servants within the department, you can't answer.

I'll leave you that prerogative as to how you want to answer this.

Mr. Recker.

[Brad Recker]

I would just say that those are simply long-term projections based on, as you say, almost heroic assumptions with respect to long-term spending and everything growing essentially at the rate of growth of the economy. They're not projections of the current fiscal plan of the government. That's what I would say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Recker.

Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I have a maybe softer question. I recognize that my question was based on a very political vision. I do recognize that, but it was just a technical question as to how you could get those numbers.

I will go back to that without any political comments but just a technical question. How many times do you do that in a year? Is it a habit or a custom to produce that kind of evaluation every year, or do you produce it when the government asks you to do so?

[Brad Recker]

It's an annual publication.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Is it always at the same time in October?

[Brad Recker]

It's typically in the fall, yes.