Finance Committee on April 10th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

On the estimates, we have five votes to make. I think you have the estimates paper before you.

Shall vote 1 under the Department of Finance, less the amount granted in interim supply, carry? The amount is $66,960,447.75.

Shall vote 5 under the Department of Finance, less the amount granted in interim supply, carry in the amount of $.75?

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$89,280,597

Vote 5—Authority for amount by way of direct payments..........$1

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

Shall vote 1 under the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, less the amount granted in interim supply, carry in the amount of $34,457,116.50?

FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS AND REPORTS ANALYSIS CENTRE OF CANADA

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$45,942,822

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

Shall vote 1 under the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions less the amount granted in interim supply carry in the amount of $780,793.50?

OFFICE OF THE SUPERINTENDENT OF FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS

Program expenditures..........$945,058

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

Shall I report vote 1 and vote 5 under the Department of Finance, vote 1 under the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, and vote 1 under the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, less the amount granted in interim supply, to the House?

[Some hon. members]

On division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Just to inform people, we won't report that until we hear from the Canada Revenue Agency as well, and we'll do the two together.

We have a number of motions that we need to deal with, and I expect that people want to deal with them in public. We can deal with them in camera, but we probably should give them to the clerk so that during the two-week break, the library can work on what it would cost to do our pre-budget hearings this fall, the travel of the committee, and so on. We need to do that in camera. Can we go into camera first, deal with that, and then go public?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I think we should go in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We've agreed to go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll reconvene.

Do you want to lift your motion, Pierre, and see if we can finish it in this session before we go to votes? Then we'll adjourn until Wednesday.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

I moved a motion at the end of March regarding the Minister of National Revenue's response to the report on tax evasion. In her response, she promised to take a number of measures by March 31. My motion is quite simple. It asks the minister to appear and testify on the progress she has made on the measures she promised to take in her response to our report.

The minister promised to take a number of measures, which are listed in my motion. I will not read the motion, because I have already introduced a notice of motion. We want the minister to come and talk about the four or five items outlined in my motion. I don't have the details here, but she had promised to take measures by March 31. It is now April 10, so it would be appropriate for the committee to invite the minister to come and tell us about the progress she has made to that end. My motion is quite clear on the issue. It also mentions a two-hour meeting with the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I have the motion, and you have moved it.

Can those questions be asked when she's here for the estimates?

She hasn't been here for the estimates yet, has she?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Suzie Cadieux]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You think about that—

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

That's something I wanted to mention. We could take advantage of her appearance on the main estimates to ask her questions, in the second hour, about her response to our report. If the members of the committee support my motion, we could take a full hour to hear what the minister has to say about her response to our report and the progress she has made to that end.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You can ask pretty well whatever when you're dealing with estimates anyway.

Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm looking at Mr. Dusseault's motion. I'd like to propose an amendment to his motion.

Mr. Chair, can I go ahead?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes, go ahead.

What section of the motion?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

It will be the last paragraph, the last sentence of his motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Read it.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

The new sentence would include the words “in writing”, and read as follows:

That the Committee invite the Minister of National Revenue to report in writing on the progress made on her commitment in response to recommendations 1, 3, 8, 9 and 14 set out in the Sixth Report of the Committee.

The remainder of the sentence, “during a meeting of at least two hours”, would be deleted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm not sure. I'll ask for direction on this.

Does that change the intent of the motion? What's the clerk's ruling?

Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

I don't think it's useful. I could have written Order Paper questions if I had wanted a written answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

That may be your view on his amendment, but I'm wondering if it is a legitimate amendment.

Dan.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would argue that it would substantially change the nature of it. It seemed to me that Mr. Dusseault's original premise was to bring accountability and to have updates to members of Parliament versus in a written format where it is less organic and where good questions can be put.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do you have any judgment on this, Clerk?

The amendment is in order.

You've moved an amendment, and you've heard my point on the estimates as well—it can still be asked, I guess.

Dan, you made a point on the amendment. You think...having the minister here to raise questions.

Pierre.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

I will repeat my point that it potentially changes the motion itself.

If I had wanted a written answer, I would have written an Order Paper question instead of moving a motion in front of this committee. I don't agree with the amendment. If I had wanted her to answer in writing, I would have written a letter to her and asked for an answer. The support of this committee is not needed to write letters to ministers. I can write one on my own and wait for the answer.

I want the minister to come here and be accountable for the deadline she accepted in her answer to our report, so that we can make sure that she's doing what she promised to do for us parliamentarians, members of the committee. I don't accept the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Dan, did you have another point you wanted to raise?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

No, I'm happy with the debate.