Evidence of meeting #22 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crisis.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you. Thank you very much.
We will turn to Carleton University. You've been before our committee before, Professor Lee. Please go ahead.
4:15 p.m.
Dr. Ian Lee Associate Professor, Carleton University
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to thank you for inviting me here.
First, I will make my disclosures very quickly. I do not consult directly or indirectly to anyone anywhere. Second, I have no conflict of interest, as I have no investments in any firms anywhere. Third, I do not belong to or donate money to any political party or allow lawn signs on my property in any election.
Excuse me for looking to the right rather than at my tiny laptop, which has the camera. I have a much larger screen to my right, at 24 inches.
Since the 1960s, Canada has developed a well-deserved reputation for a strong and effective social safety net in multiple areas of Canadian society, including income support for seniors, OAS, GIS and CPP; income support for the unemployed through our famous employment insurance program; social support for low-income people and disadvantaged people; social housing; and child support.
Now the Government of Canada has introduced the Canada emergency student benefit, to last from May until August. I applaud that it is temporary and is delivered through the CRA, which I also strongly endorse. The government has also introduced the Canada student service grant. These are sound innovations that are in addition to previously announced programs.
We can certainly further tweak these various programs here and there, with a nip and a tuck or perhaps even major surgery, but every one of these business and individual programs is premised on several critical, unstated—or at least not adequately discussed—assumptions.
One is that these massive fiscal and monetary spending programs of somewhere near $200 billion involve—this is the assumption—temporary support for only a few months.
The second assumption is that, as this spending is absolutely essential, we must not discuss or worry about consequences.
The third is that if the pandemic continues without a vaccine—i.e., is not temporary—we must continue spending at these unprecedented levels.
The fourth is that we cannot reopen a significant percentage of firms or employment until the coronavirus is eradicated or mostly gone.
I want to focus on the much larger strategic issues that directly challenge these assumptions. Over the next several months, thousands of firms, overwhelmingly small business firms, are going to die. In the immortal words—and I'm not trying to make light of this at all—of John Cleese from Monty Python, they will not be sleeping; they will cease to be. They will cease to exist. There will be no jobs to return to one day in those firms. Indeed, it is highly conceivable that more small businesses will die in the next 12 months in Canada than will Canadians from the coronavirus. Thus, we must focus government fiscal and monetary policy on ensuring that most of our SMEs survive.
Why? Why am I so hung up on this, if I don't consult with them whatsoever? Here is a quick refresher course.
Statistics Canada data says that there are roughly 1.2 million small businesses in Canada with fewer than 99 employees, which is the definition, and they provide 70% of all the jobs. There are only 22,000 mid-size firms, with 100 to 499 employees, which provide 20%, and the 3,000 large corporations provide 10%.
As I stated at the outset, we have a diverse, well-structured suite of social infrastructure programs for individuals across society, but it's not quite so good on the business side. Indeed, in recent years some demonization of SME entrepreneurs concerning taxation ensured that we did not discuss and understand the critical centrality of SMEs in employment in our economy. Fortunately, those suggestions seem to have disappeared with the crisis.
I'll wrap up in the next minute.
Before turning to important alternative approaches, we must examine at a very broad level where we are. It appears increasingly likely that the federal deficit will reach $200 billion in 2020, or 10% of GDP. Yes, that's sustainable in the short run, but as I advised this very committee last fall and last spring, it's misleading to argue for the fiscal strength of the Government of Canada at a 30% debt-to-GDP ratio, because when we include the much weaker provincial governments, which is standard practice with OECD measurement, then we're at a 90% debt-to-GDP ratio, and that's before the crisis.
When we calculate the collapse in GDP, the denominator, plus a $200-billion deficit and the 30% debt-to-GDP number of last year's budget, we are now approaching 50%. When we add in a minimum of two more years of federal spending at $200 billion a year, we're approaching the debt-to-GDP percentage of Prime Minister Chrétien in 1995, which triggered the largest downsizing in Canadian history. It took three decades—the seventies, eighties and nineties—to achieve what we're going to accomplish in three years.
These numbers demonstrate the gargantuan magnitude, but there are solutions beyond praying for a vaccine.
We need to immediately classify every farm and industry by risk of coronavirus infection using the classification used by Professor Hendrik Streeck, a leading epidemiologist at the University of Bonn. He uses a classification of low–contact, low–risk activities, such as most of retail, excepting bars, restaurants and entertainment, versus high-contact, high-risk activities characterized by many people in close contact for extended periods of time. This refers to bars, restaurants, sporting events, and of course our front-line health care workers and seniors in our seniors homes.
We need to develop a plan—as Germany is doing as we speak, as well as Denmark, Saskatchewan and Quebec—to bring parts of our economy back, with appropriate distancing measures, to ensure the survival of SMEs, employment, our economy and our society.
I thank the committee.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Professor Lee.
We'll turn now to Community Food Centres Canada and Mr. Nick Saul, president and CEO.
Go ahead, Nick. The floor is yours.
4:25 p.m.
Nick Saul President and Chief Executive Officer, Community Food Centres Canada
Good afternoon. Thanks for the invitation to speak today.
My name is Nick Saul. I'm the CEO of Community Food Centres Canada. I'm joined by my colleague Sasha McNicoll, our lead on policy.
CFCC builds health, belonging and social justice in marginalized communities across the country through the power of food. With our national network of 200 organizations, we work to eradicate poverty and food insecurity and to improve the well-being of low-income Canadians. A total of 83% of the people we serve have incomes below the low-income measure: 37% are unemployed and 24% are on disability benefits.
I'd like to thank you and the hard-working public servants who have responded so quickly to ensure that as many Canadians as possible receive the financial support they need to get through this crisis. I'd also like to thank Julie Dzerowicz, our member of Parliament, for being such a strong champion of our efforts.
We are grateful for the $5 million in funding we received from Agriculture and Agri-food Canada to help organizations from coast to coast to coast provide emergency food assistance to the hardest-hit Canadians. These funds have had an immediate positive impact. This comes from Erin Beagle, executive director of Roots to Harvest in Thunder Bay: “There was a lot of uncertainty before, but the funding that came in from CFCC through the federal government allowed us to say, 'Okay, we have the capacity to do this.' It gave some certainty in a time when there is so much uncertainty. It’s a relief to people who are already vulnerable and living in poverty. I feel really good about being able to say that we’re here, and it wouldn’t have been possible” without this funding.
Having said this, we know that millions of Canadians are in distress. There is much work to do to tackle the ever-deepening food insecurity crisis. The Depot, for example, our partner community food centre in Montreal, has seen 110 new applicants for its services per day, as many as they normally handle in a month, and has already spent half their annual food budget over the last 30 days.
Long before the COVID crisis hit, 4.4 million Canadians, or one in eight, were food insecure. Of these, 65% are employed but are still not making enough money to put food on their table. Precarious work, low pay, few hours and no benefits are unfortunately the norm for millions of workers, particularly women, young people and racialized communities. Nearly a third—a third—of people suffering from food insecurity have incomes above the low-income measure. Even for those who have what is considered sufficient income, the cost of living across much of the country makes it impossible to make ends meet.
Recent research that we conducted shows that food insecurity pervades all aspects of people's lives. It takes a toll on their physical and mental health, increases social isolation and cultural exclusion, erodes relationships with loved ones, and creates irreparable harm to the lives of children. These realities cost us billions of dollars each year.
The measures in the federal government's economic response plan, notably the Canada economic response benefit, are a life raft for the many Canadians who have lost their jobs because of the COVID crisis, but we need to continue to find ways to reach people who are still struggling. As the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives has surfaced, 1.4 million unemployed Canadians have not received income support from EI or the CERB in April. We were pleased to see the GST/HST credit top-up, which will be invaluable to low- and modest-income Canadians. As this crisis continues, we hope to see another top-up when people receive payments again in July.
In better times, our work is about bringing people together around good food rather than providing them with basic groceries in isolation. While we are proud to be able to help our partners pivot toward providing emergency food assistance to hundreds of thousands of Canadians who are in urgent need, we cannot continue to rely in ordinary times on what should only be an emergency charitable response to provide what should be seen as the basic necessities of life. Like the CERB, any new benefits should start at a level where they create stability by providing a basic income floor below which people cannot fall. That kind of income policy is what should be investigated, as it holds the greatest potential for building greater equity as we emerge from COVID-19.
It's absolutely imperative that we continue to use our federal tax system to support people adequately at all stages of life, for example, by making the disability tax credit refundable, as we suggested in our pre-budget submission. As well, we need to build on the support offered by the Canada child benefit, old age security and the guaranteed income supplement, and to complement them further by better supporting low-income working-age adults by increasing the Canada workers benefit. For working Canadians, we need policies that address precarious employment and drive toward creating better jobs with higher wages and benefits. Together, these approaches will bring us closer to meeting Canada's legal obligation to deliver on the right to food for its citizens.
Societies that reduce inequality increase productivity, educational success, and health and well-being. We all benefit from working to create a more just economy and the social supports that help people participate and bounce back. This will also help us inoculate ourselves from future shocks that are bound to come.
Again, thank you for the attention and your hard work in these difficult times. My colleague Sasha and I look forward to answering any questions you may have and to continuing to work together to build a more equitable Canada.
Thank you.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Next we have Pierre Céré, spokesperson for the national council of unemployed persons, I believe.
4:30 p.m.
Pierre Céré Spokesperson, Conseil national des chômeurs et chômeuses
Mr. Chair, members of the Standing Committee on Finance, thank you for inviting us and for the opportunity to share our thoughts on the emergency measures put in place by the Canadian government in response to the health crisis.
I am the spokesperson for the Conseil national des chômeurs et chômeuses. As such, I will particularly focus on income replacement measures for workers who have lost their jobs as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. This pandemic literally shattered the labour world, putting millions of people out of work in one fell swoop. In our recent history, this shock is pretty much unprecedented, except for the Great Depression caused by the stock market crash of 1929.
To date, it is estimated that more than one-third of the labour force has become unemployed. As of April 23, yesterday, 7.1 million people had applied for the Canada emergency response benefit (CERB). That is a huge number. The anxiety over the health crisis has been compounded by the unemployment crisis. As you know, income is central to the lives of people and of families. It's what we use to pay bills, rent or mortgage, groceries, medication and other family needs.
While the Service Canada machine was imploding, with a staggering number of claims for benefits from all directions, while its online system was breaking down, while the telephone lines were no longer being answered, and while the offices were closing, people were wondering what they would live on and what income replacement they would be eligible for in the face of unemployment. We were asking ourselves the same questions, and we had to answer the questions of clearly distraught people who were calling our offices, by the thousands, every day. At first, each day of government silence and lack of clear direction seemed to last a century. Would the employment insurance rules be eased to allow all categories of workers to be protected? Would there be temporary emergency measures instead? We had no idea. The public had no idea and that added to the anxiety. It took more than a week to resolve it all.
In fact, since Parliament passed a one-stop emergency income replacement program, the Canada emergency response benefit, on March 25, the air has been cleared. We felt that people, in general, were beginning to feel reassured. Implementing the CERB on April 6 and the speedy payments helped ease the pressure on families. It is important to acknowledge that the coverage of this program was very broad, including not only wage earners, but also self-employed workers who had lost their jobs as a result of the health crisis. However, we must not forget that there were still major holes in this emergency social safety net.
We took strong action on a number of occasions to highlight those shortcomings, and it is clear that we, like other stakeholders from civil society and the political world, have been heard. I think it is to this government's great credit that it has taken into consideration other points of view and incorporated them into the follow-up to the CERB. These measures were announced last week, on April 15, for seasonal workers at the end of their EI benefits and unable to return to their regular jobs; for people who have come to the end or are coming to the end of their EI benefits; and for workers who have suffered a drop in income because they have shifted from full-time to part-time work. Further action was also announced this week, on April 22, introducing the CESB for students, which we applaud. Frankly speaking, many people breathed a big sigh of relief. It was important to ensure that no one was left behind and that there were no more holes in the social safety net.
I would now like to draw your attention to two things. The first one is factual. Even today, Service Canada's service to the people is dysfunctional and highly insufficient, even chaotic. Across the country, the 600 Service Canada offices are closed and no one is answering the phones. Other than an online form to request a call back, there is absolutely no way to contact anyone at Service Canada. This needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Right now, thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of claimants are currently blocked and have nowhere to turn.
Second, for a government program to work, people have to know about it and understand it. The government should really launch a major advertising campaign through mainstream media outlets to inform people about the many programs in place, because there are many of them, along with their terms and conditions. There needs to be a real communication plan, which has been sorely lacking to date.
Finally, I cannot conclude without reminding you that a crisis such as the one we are experiencing can become the necessary driver for rethinking the importance of our social benefits. The crisis of the 1930s led to the creation of the unemployment insurance program. World War II led to the introduction of various social programs to ensure a better redistribution of wealth, what we called the welfare state.
With the current crisis, we have seen the shortcomings of our social protections, particularly our EI system. This crisis must prompt us to completely overhaul the program. We cannot know the solutions beforehand, but we need to reflect and come up with modern answers for the realities of our century, including the reality of self-employment, telework and temporary work, the impact of the environmental transition on the labour world, and many other issues.
The COVID-19 crisis may be just one big rehearsal for the next crisis, the climate crisis, which former Supreme Court Justice Louise Arbour recently referred to in a television interview.
We have tremendous challenges ahead of us, and we will have to meet them. We believe that the current government has the political and intellectual capacity to get things started. It must do so by reaching out to constructive opposition as well as to civil society.
Thank you for your attention.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Mr. Céré.
Thank you for those short and concise recommendations.
We turn now to the Corona School of Gymnastics. Agnes Laing is the owner of that school.
Go ahead, Ms. Laing.
4:35 p.m.
Agnes Laing Owner, Corona School of Gymnastics
Good afternoon, honourable members of Parliament. I want to thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to speak to you.
My name is Agnes Laing. I am the owner and executive director of Corona School of Gymnastics here in Ottawa. Who would have predicted that the name of our school would one day be synonymous with such a devastating global pandemic?
I am grateful that our leaders in Canada have acted with such great care, efficiency and concern for all Canadians. I know that in your attempt to save lives you have also had to deal with a dramatic economic crisis. I understand and embrace the government's decision to shut down all non-essential services.
I stand before you not only as an employer, lifetime coach, mentor and entrepreneur, but also as an expert in the industry of gymnastics. During the last 48 years, I have seen thousands of children come through our doors, generations of families, including our current Prime Minister.
At this time amateur and recreational sports are totally shut down. This will affect the health of our children as well as the thousands of people employed in our sport. To give you an idea of the numbers involved just in the province of Ontario, there are 200 clubs, 118,000 gymnasts and 4,600 coaches and administrators. On a national level, gymnastics is the seventh-largest sport.
At this time I would like to specifically address the dilemma facing the sport of gymnastics. We are not able to practise any form of social distancing due to the nature of our sport. There are many children in restricted areas with coaches required to have hands on for safety. There are many surfaces that are being touched all the time, making transmission inevitable. Gymnastics schools require indoor facilities of 12,000 to 30,000 square feet, which are usually rented, resulting in huge overheads. The total paid in rent, taxes and payroll by gymnastics schools just in Ontario alone is $62.8 million annually.
In order for our schools to survive, they will need extended support for rent from the government. The average rent in Ontario ranges from $150,000 to $250,000 per year, and since there will be no revenue for what is expected to be an extended period of time, we will require assistance to return to our space and be able to reopen when it is safe to do so for our children.
I would also like to emphasize that other sports in this country, like football, soccer, hockey and swimming, are all funded by municipal organizations run by the cities. The sport of gymnastics is on its own.
I would like to give you a sense of what a school like ours, as many others in the country, looks like. This is a unique organization. For us to pick up, leave, and store our equipment is almost an impossibility. Most of the schools have half a million dollars' worth of equipment. If our landlord throws us out, we have nowhere to store the equipment, and once we are ready to re-engage, to find a facility of that size with the specific ceiling height and pits dug into the ground would be financially impossible.
I also want to let you know that 60% of the employees in schools like ours are students. We are very sport-specific, and 87% of those involved in this sport are female. Females make up 78% of our total employees. For people involved in this sport, their skills are not easily adapted to any other kind of teaching.
I thank you for your time, and to end on a lighter note, here's a picture of your Prime Minister as a 12-year-old. I had the pleasure of teaching him.
I'm open for any questions and I welcome them.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Ms. Laing. Yes, I think we've seen some of the unique consequences caused by this pandemic to certain institutions and certain industries. I have a couple of grandkids who go to gymnastics as well.
We turn now to Universities Canada. We have Paul Davidson, president, and Wendy Therrien, director.
Paul, you're on.
April 24th, 2020 / 4:40 p.m.
Paul Davidson President and Chief Executive Officer, Universities Canada
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
What a pleasure it is to see everyone, members of Parliament and witnesses. I can't wait until we can be back together in the same place. Thank you for the invitation. Thanks for conducting this study and thanks for the extraordinary work being done by everyone, witnesses and committee members alike, in this challenging time.
I want to take a short moment of my time to pay tribute to all the people and communities who are grieving the terrible tragedy in Nova Scotia this week.
With me today is Wendy Therrien, who leads our policy and public affairs efforts. She'll be pleased to join in on any questions and answers that may follow.
We've appeared in front of this committee before, but I'll remind you that we represent all 95 universities across the country. Taken together, Canada's universities are a $35-billion enterprise and are significant drivers of economic prosperity. They provide employment for over 300,000 people. Universities are anchor institutions in their community, often as the largest employer, with extensive local supply chains. More than half of all university revenues are derived from sources other than the federal or provincial governments.
Canada's universities are also an integral part of the team Canada approach to fighting this pandemic: mitigating the risk, finding a cure and accelerating Canada's economy into recovery. You know, in the space of about 10 days, Canada's universities moved over 1.4 million learners into online education. It was something that couldn't be done in 10 years, it was said, and we achieved it in 10 days. Moreover, 70 universities have created emergency student funds to help provide additional support to those who may have been left stranded or disrupted by the events of the recent weeks. That's on top of the $2.2 billion in student support that universities provide from their own resources annually.
Thinking about the COVID response, of course universities are active in the race to the vaccine, the race to a treatment, through research investments that the federal government has made. Universities are donating PPE. They've been repurposing dormitories in order to house front-line health workers. That's the case at Western University and other campuses across the country. They're also converting research labs into testing facilities to increase the capacity for testing quickly as universities and all communities step up in this national effort.
Let me extend thanks to the members of the committee and to the government for completely re-creating the social safety net in the space of a few short weeks and for injecting record liquidity to keep the economy moving. As Adam noted a few moments ago, we're especially pleased to see the $9-billion investment in support measures announced for students earlier this week, including the new CESB, changes to student financial aid, and support for job opportunities, work learning opportunities and volunteer service. These measures are essential to helping young people through the pandemic, ensuring that they can continue their studies in the fall and are able to contribute over their lifetime to building a stronger Canada.
That said, there's still an urgent need to ensure that universities can welcome back these students and offer the high-quality education that students will need to succeed in a post-COVID economy. For students to succeed, universities must be strong. Members of this committee need to know that universities are under severe financial pressure. Significant layoffs and job losses are imminent, and they will imperil universities' ability to help restart the economy and accelerate Canada into recovery.
One of the biggest sources of revenue for Canada's universities and their communities is international student revenue. I've appeared in front of this committee before about this. International students contribute more to Canada's economy than the export of softwood, the export of wheat or the export of auto parts. They contribute $6 billion in tuition revenues to universities annually. For many institutions, international student revenues contribute over half of all tuition revenues. With closed borders and closed visa application centres, we can anticipate significantly lower international student enrolment for this fall. The loss of these revenues will directly impact all students and the ability of universities to meet the needs of Canadian students.
We're seeking some urgent assistance. We've been working with federal officials to develop a range of measures that will support students, stabilize university operations and contribute to economic recovery. For example, an immediate investment to make more robust online education capacity will do three things.
First, it will enable Canadians students to continue to learn in the event face-to-face instruction is not possible in September for health reasons. Second, it will also enable international students to continue to enrol and prepare to come to Canada when conditions allow. Third, it will strengthen our ability to support people who are currently unemployed and ensure they have access to post-secondary education in a way that enhances their skills and builds human capital.
Previously, we have spoken about the need for upskilling and reskilling and with more than a million Canadians unemployed, there's an opportunity right now to help them with that.
Urgent funding is needed to support the move to new tools and platforms; to provide training for learners, faculty and staff; and to address increasingly sophisticated cybersecurity risks.
A second urgent need is for federal assistance to mitigate the loss of international student revenue. A direct federal transfer or other mechanism will help universities bridge their operations until borders are open and visa processing returns to normal levels.
There is every chance that Canada will emerge stronger in the international education field post-pandemic, but the short-term loss of revenues could be catastrophic.
Finally, as we think about moving to recovery, this committee knows well that universities can implement infrastructure quickly across the country. There are over seven billion dollars' worth of shovel-ready projects that can help meet Canada's inclusive growth goals with green and accessible projects that strengthen the students' experiences and accelerate recovery.
Thanks again for the opportunity to be with you today.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Mr. Davidson.
I will give committee members the start-up list for the round of questioning. We will go to Ms. Dancho first. It's your first finance committee meeting, Raquel, and we put you up first. Then we'll go to Mr. Fraser, Mr. Ste-Marie and Mr. Julian.
With that, we will turn to the University of British Columbia, Professor Kevin Milligan.
Kevin, the floor is yours.
4:50 p.m.
Professor Kevin Milligan Professor, University of British Columbia
Thank you, Chair, and thank you for the invitation to appear.
My brief comments will first address some data, followed by thoughts about the future.
For the data, I analyzed the Statistics Canada labour force survey for March, along with economists Tammy Schirle and Mikal Skuterud, for the C.D. Howe Institute. Already in March—and I know that March was the very beginning of this crisis—we can see a very big impact of COVID on the work of Canadians.
Already then, more than 2.2 million Canadians had shifted out of work. It is important to emphasize, however, that you can't just look at the unemployment count, because some didn't move to unemployment. More of them actually shifted to some kind of furlough, meaning that they kept their job but moved to zero or very few hours worked. That's a really important aspect of what's going on in the labour market.
Overall, hours worked dropped by 18% in March compared to February. The hardest-hit occupations were in cultural work, education and food service. It was low-wage earners, women and young people who took the hardest hit. For example, women earning less than $15 an hour saw a total drop in hours worked of 30%.
That was in March. What's happening now?
The answer is actually hard to know because we lack timely data. Large businesses, small businesses, charities and families are all trying to make very big, important decisions about their future every day, and what they need is fresh data in this fast-moving crisis.
Statistics Canada has reacted effectively by expediting their GDP numbers and putting out some innovative and timely data products. In addition, we now have administrative data on the emergency response benefit three times per week. That's something that was added last week, and that was a very great move to see the government make.
We know from today's update that 7.1 million Canadians are now on the emergency response benefit. As someone else mentioned, that's one-third of our labour force. This is entirely unprecedented in the history of economic statistics. We need more data to guide Canadians' crucial decisions going forward.
Number one, we need provincial breakdowns of the emergency response benefit, because, as we know, some provinces have very different situations from those of other provinces. We need to know that so that local businesses and families can make plans about their economic future.
Number two, as these other new programs begin to take application, like the wage subsidy, the emergency business account, and the emergency student benefit, administrative data on each those, again broken down by province, would be very nice to have. It's not nice to have for academics to play with data; this is for real businesses, real families to make plans about their future in this very uncertain environment.
To close, I want to emphasize that in the middle of this emergency, we need to keep our eyes on a plan for the future. We need to consider how the emergency benefits we are now designing and implementing will serve Canadians in a partially open economy that may be with us for some time.
In addition, we need to give employers and employees clear signals about how we will transition away from emergency benefits when the time is appropriate. These kinds of clear signals about the transition are needed so that everyone can plan, make hiring decisions and make other decisions.
Finally, we need to ensure that we learn lessons from this crisis about how we support unemployed workers, and how we support our public servants who delivered the programs that we really needed when the crisis hit.
Thank you for the opportunity to make the comments.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Mr. Milligan.
Before I turn to Raquel, just for regular committee members on the finance committee, we have to think of witnesses for next week's panels. We'll talk about this at the end of this panel.
On Thursday, in the first panel will be the minister and officials on the biweekly report, the pandemic and what the government is doing. For the second panel, I'm suggesting a general panel in which we catch up on witnesses from all kinds of sectors that we may have missed.
The first panel on Friday would be from our regular list, as we proposed before, support for Canadians ineligible for the measures that have been announced to date. The second panel on Friday would be the manufacturing and construction sectors together.
Think about that, and we'll bring that up again at the end of the meeting.
Welcome, Ms. Dancho, to the finance committee. You have six minutes.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's great to be here today and have the opportunity to question the witnesses. I very much appreciate the thoughtfulness that was put into the remarks at this very challenging time. I appreciated hearing the diversity of opinions on this.
In addition to being the member of Parliament for Kildonan—St. Paul I'm the shadow minister for diversity and inclusion and youth. My job in opposition is to hold the government to account on youth policy on behalf of all Canadians, so I'll be focusing my questions on that today.
I'd like to start with Mr. Adam Brown from the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations.
Mr. Brown, can you tell me how many students you represent nationally?
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
We represent 360,000 students nationally. That includes our partnership with Union étudiante du Québec.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Wow, that's a lot.
Mr. Brown, I'm sure you've heard this as well, but we're hearing a lot more about mental health concerns, given isolation and unemployment. People are very concerned. They're unable to leave their homes. We know young people are very active socially.
Have you heard anything from your membership about mental health concerns?
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
Absolutely. It's mid to late April, so students are wrapping up final exams right now. They would be heading into what would be a summer of work. With a lot of this happening all at once and students not being able to go to their classrooms, to be around their friends or, as you mentioned, to be out socializing, there is absolutely the concern of greater isolation and how that impacts mental health.
Mr. Davidson can probably speak to that as well, but I know a number of post-secondary institutions have moved mental health services online to the best of their ability. I think in a time where you could say that mental health is—
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
—there is stress among students, and supports are certainly always welcome and appreciated.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Brown.
Do you get the sense that our students are quite disappointed or even depressed that they don't have their typical summer job opportunities?
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
I think a lot of students are always looking forward to working in the summer. In particular, I think it's important to note that many students use the revenue they bring in over the summer to help pay for their tuition in the fall. Looking at the package that was announced earlier this week by the Prime Minister, we're hoping the emergency student benefit will get students through the next few months. We hope the increase in grants as well will help pay for their tuition in the fall.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Brown.
There seem to be mixed emotions on the Prime Minister's announcement, but I appreciate that you like aspects of it. I am concerned that it's not going to help the mental health of students by incentivizing them to stay home and collect the subsidy.
Professor Lee at Carleton University, my understanding is that your expertise is in the employment field. If students forgo opportunities to work this summer, how do you feel this will impact their long-term job prospects and skill development?
5 p.m.
Associate Professor, Carleton University
I'm going to defer to Professor Milligan. I think he is the leading authority on employment.
Having said that, I've been studying public policy for my entire adult life as a professor in Ottawa. What else can we do in Ottawa? That's our business in Ottawa. We do politics and policy.
I have also been teaching for 32 years. I've been very privileged to teach remarkably young and dynamic people. On the one hand, this is a terrible, terrible crisis. On the other hand, I think it's falling disproportionally on young people. My paycheque keeps going into the bank. Older people's paycheques roll into the bank. We don't get pay cuts. We don't get laid off.
I've seen it with my own two children, who are young adults. They've been devastated by this and I think this is horrible, but—
5 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Professor Lee, I'm very sorry to cut you off. I only have two minutes left, but I appreciate your—
5 p.m.
Associate Professor, Carleton University
I'm optimistic, though, for young people because of their dynamic character.