Finance Committee on July 27th, 2020

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I think Mr. Fragiskatos was before me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Oh, I didn't see him.

We'll go with you first anyway, Ms. Dzerowicz, and then Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

If the Kielburgers are available tomorrow for four hours, I think that's fine, but if they're not available, do we just take them for an hour and a half tomorrow? Then do we have to find another time for them, and would it be this week or when they are next available? How does that work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I guess it would be a matter of discussion between the clerk and the Kielburgers to see how much time they could be available for tomorrow. We'd have to make up the difference at another time. They would know that the committee has the power of subpoena, if we need to go that far. We would hope that we don't have to.

I think it would be a matter of discussion, Julie, between the clerk and the Kielburgers.

Mr. Fragiskatos is next.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

This is on that point. I worry that we'll end up going in circles here. I think you've heard already that there isn't great opposition to the idea that the Kielburgers would come and testify beyond the time that was originally set out, but we don't know their availability. We can debate all day about whether four hours is appropriate. I personally, like Mr. Fraser, don't have a problem with it. Again, I haven't heard any opposition from the Liberal side. My Liberal colleagues seem to be for that, but I have a tough time seeing how we'll get anywhere without knowing their schedule.

Perhaps a way forward here is to allow tomorrow's meeting, set for an hour and a half, to continue as scheduled. Then we can see, either in the meantime or at tomorrow's meeting, whether the Kielburgers can stay for four hours, or what to do if that's not possible. Otherwise, we will just end up wasting our time here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Could I perhaps suggest that the clerk see what their availability is tomorrow? If we could at least get a minimum of two hours tomorrow and then another two hours later this week, would that be acceptable to Mr. Poilievre's proposal?

Then there's the time for Victor Li, the chief financial officer. What are we talking about for Mr. Li? That would be a separate panel on another day, likely.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

That would have to be another day.

Listen, I don't know what the Kielburgers would have in their schedule that would be more important right now. Perhaps they're very busy, but it is extraordinary to me that they'd have something more important than testifying before a parliamentary committee that is looking into a scandal that has gripped the nation regarding a $500-million now-cancelled contribution agreement for which two ministers, including the Prime Minister, have admitted a conflict of interest. I think something of that enormity would merit their time. I don't know. If they have some other engagement they had planned, perhaps they could reschedule it for the Parliament of Canada.

As for four hours, I remember Jody Wilson-Raybould testified for, I think, more than four hours, and was grilled by Liberal members who had no problem keeping her before committee that length of time. It's strange that they are now concerned about such a time frame for the Kielburger brothers.

I don't want to have to do a subpoena, but I will if necessary. We do have that power. They're going to have to testify for four hours at least. They might as well get it done tomorrow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. I think that's well known.

Go ahead, Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, I don't think we're at a subpoena stage yet either.

For something that there doesn't seem to be big disagreement on, we seem to be talking in circles. May I propose that you invite them for four hours tomorrow, and that if, for whatever reason, they're not available, we split it up into two hours tomorrow and two hours on Wednesday, as an alternative? Make the pitch for four hours tomorrow. If that works, great.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Excellent. I can live with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Then we're agreed on that.

Mr. Julian, did you have your hand up, or were you just moving around?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I did have my hand up, Mr. Chair, but I think Mr. Fraser voiced what I was thinking. If we have a consensus, then that's the consensus of the committee, and we move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. That's great.

The clerk will ask the Kielburgers if they can appear for four hours tomorrow, and, if they can't, for two hours tomorrow and two the next day.

On Victor Li, what are you proposing there? We'll take him off the list for tomorrow, and then is there another proposal?

I guess I'm turning to you, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I don't think it's appropriate for him to be on the same panel as the Kielburgers. I would suggest that perhaps we look at this for the end of the week, or perhaps next week. We do need at this point, unless something changes, to have him appear. I think it would be important to have him for at least a couple of hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. The clerk and I will try to schedule that in for this week for Mr. Li.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Mr. Chairman, I just want to point out that the clerk has notified us that the Canadian Federation of Students has withdrawn. Does that leave a slot open in that area? Is that time frame enough?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We had Michelle Douglas and then the Canadian Federation of Students for an hour. Mr. Poilievre is requesting that Mr. Li be here longer than that, I believe.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

That's right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Then it would likely have to be another day.

Okay? Are we okay on that? Okay.

Where are we now?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

All right. I think we have an understanding on Messrs. Kielburger and Mr. Li.

We're moving now to—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Sorry, Mr. Chair; I did have my hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Oh, sorry.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I have another motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Sorry, Pierre; I did miss Mr. Fragiskatos before.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I see.