Finance Committee on Dec. 8th, 2020

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

My next question, then, is around some of the issues we talked about with the minister: the wealth tax that other countries have put into place to pay for COVID relief and COVID supports; the excess profits tax, which we had in the Second World War, which helped to ensure there wasn't the profiteering that we're certainly seeing through this pandemic; and also the web giants who are living a tax-free holiday right now while so many Canadians are suffering.

I'm wondering if the Department of Finance has done projections or an evaluation of what amounts would be brought in so that we can invest for the benefit of Canadians through those three measures.

Certainly the PBO indicated that wealth tax, on the model that the NDP proposed in the last election, would be $5.8 billion in year one, moving to $11 billion.

I'm interested if the Department of Finance has done evaluations of the impacts of each of those measures, which would help to shore up the revenue side and ensure that we have the wherewithal to provide supports to people through the pandemic and in the period afterwards.

[Andrew Marsland]

Thank you for the question.

The department does all kinds of analyses all the time, but in terms of costing particular models, I'm not aware that we have costed any specific model. Of course, the revenue implications of any particular policy depend very much on the design of that policy and the parameters put forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If any others with the department want to come in, just either yell or raise your hand. We're working under different circumstances.

I will not take this time from you, Peter, but I forgot to give a heads-up for those following this round. Mr. Falk and Mr. Kelly will be splitting the next round.

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I gather from the response that there hasn't been an evaluation done by the Department of Finance, and I find that somewhat disturbing, given the situation we're in and the important investments that have to be made to support Canadians.

I am also wondering about companies that are listed in the Bahamas papers, the Paradise papers and the Panama papers, and to what extent the Department of Finance tracks those companies. These are companies that have obviously used offshore tax havens. I know this is also a responsibility through CRA, but does the ministry track any of those companies that have been listed in these publicly listed papers?

[Andrew Marsland]

Again, thank you for the question.

I think, as was identified, it's really an issue for the Canada Revenue Agency, which has used resources that the government has devoted to the whole issue of international tax avoidance and evasion. There have been resources and efforts in that area over recent years, and recent budgets have dedicated funds towards those efforts.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for your answer.

CRA came before this committee and threw up its hands and said that it didn't have the tools to actually crack down overseas tax havens and the very profitable companies that use them. Again, it's a bit disconcerting that we're not thinking of the revenue side for resources.

My final questions are around evaluation of costs for programs that are needed and supported by the Canadian population. Has the ministry done an evaluation of what the cost would be of putting in place a universal, publicly administered pharmacare program?

The PBO has done its cost estimates. I'd like to know whether the finance ministry has done the same for full implementation of national child care over a number of years and what the cost implications would be for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Williams, go ahead.

[Tushara Williams, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of the costing that has been done for pharmacare, budget 2019 announced the costing that has been done to date. This was $500 million to set up a drug agency and a strategy for high-cost drugs for rare diseases. The fall economic statement announced that Health Canada will start consultations soon in terms of the development of the strategy.

That's the costing that has been undertaken to date on pharmacare.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This is your last question, Peter. We're a little over.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

The other question is on child care and the full implementation of national child care. Child care advocates have talked about $2 billion that would need to be made available immediately as the first step to putting in place a national child care program. Has there been an evaluation by the ministry of finance to show the amount of investments required to ensure that we do have a national child care program in this country?

[Tushara Williams]

The department that's responsible for child care is Employment and Social Development Canada. I believe that work is under way in that department right now. There were initial investments announced, as the minister mentioned, in the FES last week, but the ongoing costing and analysis for an early learning and child care comprehensive program has been undertaken by ESDC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

I have on my list, folks, although I could be wrong, Mr. Falk for three minutes, and then two and a half minutes each for Mr. Falk and Mr. Kelly.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Chair, just as a correction, I will take four minutes and Mr. Poilievre will take the final minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you.

Thank you, officials, for joining us here today. Thank you for the answers you have been providing.

The Bank of Canada is your bank. Can you tell us what guidance the bank has provided you in drafting your budget?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Leswick.

[Nicholas Leswick]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the question. I can be brief. We don't consult the bank in terms of what the government's program and fiscal policy—

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

No interpretation is coming through.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Leswick, could you hold your mike closer and start over? The translation didn't come through.

[Nicholas Leswick]

I apologize for that disruption. I will get a new microphone.

The Department of Finance does not consult the bank on program or fiscal policy dimensions of what it intends to publish in the budget. Obviously the Bank of Canada is our fiscal agent and operationalizes the government's debt management strategy, but I think that's entirely different from the thrust of the question, if I understand correctly.

I can turn it over to Mr. Halverson.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Halverson, did you want to comment further?

[Soren Halverson]

I think Nick has said it.

The government uses the bank as its fiscal agent, and as it puts together the debt management strategy, as it undertakes consultations with the market, it works with the bank on that aspect of the plan and questions around debt management.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, very good, but they've not provided the department with any specific guidance.

[Soren Halverson]

I'd ask a question of clarification, if I might. Is it more on debt management or more on the matters that my colleague Mr. Leswick was surfacing around the fiscal plan?

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

It would be on debt management. What kind of guidance do they provide you?