We are—
Evidence of meeting #13 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #13 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. Fraser, splitting time with Mr. Fragiskatos, will complete the round.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I expect I'll have fairly limited time, so I'll start with one question and see if we get beyond that.
Mr. Stratton, thank you for being here. One thing you mentioned during your testimony was that the success of our response in the long term may depend on ensuring that some of the emergency measures we put in place are temporary. Though they may be necessary now, we don't want to create a structural deficit more than is essential to float households and businesses through this pandemic.
While in many respects I think that's sensible, I have some questions about certain programs we're taking on that I'm supportive of. In particular, I'm thinking of something that will set the stage for long-term productivity growth, such as an early learning and national child care strategy. Would you consider a measure or investment of that nature—one that has the potential to pay for itself, or at least make a significant contribution to it, and set the stage for greater labour force participation, particularly by women—worthwhile, though it may create a permanent expense, given the productivity gains that it could set the stage for?
1:55 p.m.
Chief Economist and Vice-President, Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
I think it would depend on what it looks like. If we're talking about child care, for instance, I know we've certainly been advocating for the funding, if there is funding, going directly to day cares or going directly to families, as opposed to creating some sort of national child care program.
We certainly appreciate what the government has done in the last fall economic statement in approaching these issues. I think one of the important things is the urgency of it as well. Creating a plan to create a plan.... There are a lot of women in the workforce who need this support right now, so being able to do that as quickly as possible, I think, is maybe what's important. That's why I think it's very important about the details as opposed to.... We're certainly on board when it comes to the larger issue that needs to be resolved.
2 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I think there are certain measures we've adopted over the past few years, and even as recently as the fall economic statement, to give a boost to the Canada child benefit to get cash directly to the people who are going to be using it for child care.
When you're dealing with a supply problem, it's not as though you can simply create one more space when it's needed. Do you not think an umbrella approach that brings the provinces together to set some sort of a national strategy to ensure that we actually have both the supply that will meet the demand and the financial resources for families so they can afford that care at the end of the day is really what's important?
2 p.m.
Chief Economist and Vice-President, Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
A national strategy is very good because we need to have all the provinces on board when it comes to this. Obviously, there are jurisdictional issues when it comes to that. I would certainly advocate that, when we're putting together that national strategy, it very much focuses on any funding going directly to child care providers and also that it is not creating a federal program for it but looking at jurisdictional issues and implementing it in that way.
2 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
Mr. Wildeman, there are a lot of interesting things put on the table, and as these pre-budget deliberations will continue over the next few weeks we will hear many recommendations from a variety of stakeholders across the country.
If you were to go back to your testimony, what is the key insight, the key recommendation, that you want to give to the federal government?
2 p.m.
President, Fitness Industry Council of Canada
Messaging supporting Canadians to be proactive with their health care and rewarding their initiatives with allowing them to write off or deduct their expenses against their income tax would be the number one priority.
December 11th, 2020 / 2 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Point taken there.
How does supporting fitness businesses fit into that? I'll tell you why I'm asking. I have a number of your members in the community here in London, Ontario, including GoodLife, that have reached out to me to make the case for federal funding. There are different ways to look at an ask like that. I have constituents who would, I think, rightly say—maybe critically but still it's a fair question to ask—why would a company like GoodLife, which is an enormous Canadian company and is very successful, with deep pockets it would seem, need federal support? What does your industry council have to say about that? I'm not speaking specifically about GoodLife, but about fitness businesses in that general vein.
2 p.m.
President, Fitness Industry Council of Canada
That's a great question.
If you look at the rent subsidy, it's been really well received with the amendments by many of the smaller players, the unique boutique studios. A company the size of GoodLife would be capped at $300,000 for that rent support. They have well over 500 locations. The scope of the rent subsidy really doesn't help a company that size. There are other regional players, like Movati or GYMVMT, that are too small to be big and too big to be small, almost.
As an association, we have been lobbying for amendments to the rent support. Many of those amendments were actually completed, and we're very appreciative of that, but for the mid-sized to larger companies, it still misses the mark to an extent.
Having said that, as an industry association we're focused on the recovery and how we can help. The tax incentives, as well as the positive messaging, will get more people started, which will obviously impact facilities in the long term and impact professionals across the country.
2 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I'm sorry. We'll have to end it there.
On behalf of the committee, I certainly want to thank all the witnesses, some of you for coming on short notice today. Thank you to those who submitted submissions prior to mid-August. All those submissions will be considered in terms of the pre-budget consultations, as well as the evidence presented today.
With that, thank you very much for your presentations. We wish everyone a merry Christmas, a happy new year, and stay healthy.
The meeting is suspended.
2:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We will reconvene the meeting.
This is meeting number 13 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. As everyone here knows, we are doing pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2021 budget.
As a reminder, folks, when you're not speaking, just make sure your mike is on mute. It makes life a lot easier for those trying to translate into other languages.
We'll start with you, Jeff.
Mr. Morrison is the executive director of the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association.
Go ahead.
2:05 p.m.
Jeff Morrison Executive Director, Canadian Housing and Renewal Association
Thank you, esteemed Chair, and good afternoon to you and the committee members. Thank you for the invitation to appear today.
For those of you who are unfamiliar with our organization, CHRA represents the social, non-profit and affordable housing sector throughout Canada. Our sector manages approximately 600,000 units of affordable housing, which collectively house approximately over a million people in Canada.
As this committee deliberates on the contents of the next federal budget, which of course will be heavily influenced by the COVID pandemic, I want to remind committee members of the very first public health directive issued to Canadians when COVID hit, which was to stay home.
Mr. Chair, staying home isn't possible if you don't have a home, or if you don't have a home that you can afford or that meets your needs. This year has proven that housing is health care. That's why, as your committee examines the question of how we can build back better through the next budget, we would urge you to put housing at the core of a pandemic and post-pandemic recovery package.
In recent years, a number of programs have been launched under the national housing strategy to strengthen the social and non-profit housing sector. Those programs have provided a solid foundation to build on. In addition to the existing programs, CHRA would recommend expanding the national housing strategy in four key areas.
First, the most obvious gap in the national housing strategy is the absence of a dedicated urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy. With 80% of indigenous people living in these settings, and with indigenous people facing much higher rates of core housing need and homelessness, a dedicated urban, rural and northern strategy is a must. A commitment to develop this urban, rural and northern strategy that is developed and governed by indigenous peoples themselves was actually contained in several ministerial mandate letters. We would urge the federal government and this committee to make that commitment a reality in budget 2021.
Second, in September, the government announced $1 billion for a new rapid housing initiative, which, I should add, was a recommendation that we put in our original pre-budget submission issued this summer, so we thank the government for acknowledging our advice in their announcement. We know from CMHC officials and from speaking to our members that this program is receiving a significant number of applications; therefore, $1 billion is simply not enough. We would call for a minimum of $5 billion in additional funding to meet the demand and increase housing supply, and also that the federal government enter into discussions with provinces and territories to provide the necessary social supports that are required for people who will be housed in these new units.
Third, a program within the national housing strategy with significant untapped potential is the federal lands initiative. This is currently a $20-million-a-year program that transfers surplus federal lands to housing providers to build affordable housing. This program could be significantly expanded to allow federal acquisition of provincial, territorial, municipal and even private sector lands, so that they too can be transferred to affordable housing providers. All housing projects start with land, so this would be a significant shot in the arm to accelerating affordable housing development.
Finally, the national housing co-investment fund is one of the tools CMHC has at its disposal to increase the supply of affordable housing. The fund has $13 billion over 10 years and provides grants and loans to renovate existing housing units and build new affordable ones.
Access to this program is very challenging in terms of administration and timeliness, and the grant-to-loan ratio is very low. We think enhancing the program would help increase the overall supply, but only if administrative and operational improvements are made to the fund.
We know that CMHC has begun the work, and we hope to see a streamlined and simplified process, especially if the fund can be expanded.
Mr. Chair, to conclude, in 2019, Parliament—all of you—recognized housing as a human right through legislation. This year has underscored the importance of housing to health and, of course, to well-being. The question isn't “Should we put housing at the core of a post-pandemic recovery package?” The question is “Can we, as a country, afford not to?”
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I look forward to your questions.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Mr. Morrison.
We'll turn now to the Canadian Mental Health Association and Ms. Eaton, national CEO.
The floor is yours.
2:15 p.m.
Margaret Eaton National Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Mental Health Association
Good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me here to speak with you today.
I'm Margaret Eaton. I'm the national CEO of the CMHA. We are a nationwide federation of 87 community mental health providers that deliver critical mental health promotion, prevention and care to over one million Canadians across 330 locations annually.
As you know, Canadians have been living through an unprecedented time of extreme national anxiety. A CMHA and UBC survey found that the pandemic has widened persistent mental health inequities, especially among those who were already vulnerable. The most recent wave of these results showed alarming levels of despair, suicidal thoughts and hopelessness in the Canadian population.
In an average year, for example, 2.5% of Canadians experience suicidal thoughts. Our research shows that, this September, 10% of Canadians reported thoughts or feelings of suicide. That means that if you have a bubble of 10 people, that's you or one of your loved ones in crisis. Forty per cent of Canadians say that their health has deteriorated since March, with many more people in certain groups saying that their mental health has deteriorated, especially those who are unemployed, those with pre-existing mental health conditions, younger people, indigenous people and people who identify as LGBTQ2S+. Their mental health has worsened dramatically.
Based on evidence from other pandemics and disasters, we know that mental health issues will persist potentially for years after a vaccine is widely deployed. Further, good mental health is key to economic recovery. To ensure a mentally healthy workforce, we must put mental health supports in place for those who are returning to work or who have been working through stressful and hazardous circumstances.
The government should be commended for its Wellness Together portal, for its funding for mental health and substance use programs and research, for its investments in indigenous mental health, and for the new funds announced in the fall economic statement.
However, we already know that this won't be enough. Even before the pandemic, an estimated 1.6 million Canadians had mental health issues go untreated every year, and 87% of Canadians have told us that they don't have access to the mental health supports they need. However, with proper funding from the government and the right system of supports in place, CMHA believes that we can meet the overwhelming need for care, help Canadians recover, and ultimately save lives.
In our pre-budget submission, we make four recommendations.
First, we need a national mental health recovery plan in order to ensure a mentally and physically healthy population, ready to work and contribute to the national recovery. This plan should be long-term, well funded and focused on mental health promotion, prevention and care efforts at the community level. It must be implemented in a way that reaches out to our most vulnerable, especially in remote communities.
Second, we are asking for a $13.5-million investment to expand our evidence-based cognitive behavioural therapy program, BounceBack, to serve more people experiencing mild to moderate worry, stress and depression. With more funding, we could deliver this cost-effective program to many more Canadians. The program is evidence-based, and it works.
Third, we recommend that the government invest $9 million in CMHA's Resilient Minds peer support program to expand the initiative to provide support to front-line workers. Our health care workers are experiencing unbelievable strain, and CMHA can provide the resources to help them to respond to trauma, deal with psychological stress, and build healthier front-line teams.
Last, we recommend that the government substantially increase funding for indigenous-led mental health care to continue closing gaps in health outcomes between indigenous and non-indigenous communities. Indigenous people have historically high rates of suicide and are a particularly vulnerable population. Their mental health is further compromised by racism. We encourage the government to take the first nations mental wellness continuum framework as its guide and substantially increase funding to the many indigenous-led mental health care organizations.
Let's not wait until our mental health system is in the ICU on a ventilator. Let's invest now. People are struggling, and they can't afford to wait. If we fund community interventions, this will alleviate the pressure on an acute care system already hit hard by COVID-19 and it will get people the help they need sooner.
Full economic recovery requires a mentally healthy populace. We urge you to provide the long-term recovery strategy that will ensure all of our success as a nation.
Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Ms. Eaton.
There was a motion in the House today on mental health, and I believe a number for the country. I wasn't there, but you might want to check that as well.
Before I go to the next witness, in the round of questioning for this panel Cathy McLeod will be up first for six minutes, followed by a split between Ms. Koutrakis and Mr. Fragiskatos.
We now turn to Équiterre and Mr. Viau, director of government relations.
The floor is yours.
2:20 p.m.
Marc-André Viau Director, Government Relations, Équiterre
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Distinguished members of the Standing Committee on Finance, thank you for welcoming me today.
Before diving into the details of our recommendations, I would like to thank all the lawmakers here today for two things: first, for their efforts to ensure the safety of Canadians and for the economic support measures for workers and businesses; and second, for their support for the principle of zero emissions legislation, whether through a government bill or a private member's bill.
Much work remains to be done to ensure results and increased accountability, particularly in 2025, but with goodwill, it will be done. It must be done because the economic challenges of today and tomorrow are linked to environmental issues.
I am here today on behalf of Équiterre, an organization with more than 156,000 members and supporters. For more than 25 years, we have participated in debates related to agriculture, food, transportation and mobility, as well as to climate and energy policies in Quebec and in the rest of Canada.
With respect to the transportation sector, we are delighted to see that the electrification of personal vehicles is a priority for the government and for the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.
To achieve the objective of 100% zero-emission vehicles by 2040, incentives for buyers are a good starting point. However, as mentioned in our written submission, in order to increase the supply of zero-emission vehicles, we recommend that the federal government also implement a zero-cost measure that has been proven effective in Quebec, British Columbia and internationally, namely a Canada-wide standard for zero-emission vehicles.
On the demand side, incentives and charging infrastructure are not enough. We need an incremental combination of effective regulatory and fiscal approaches to accelerate the transition. In addition to the ZEV standard, we suggest reforming and integrating the iZEV and green levy programs, which should be administered by a single jurisdiction, to implement a true feebate system, another tax-neutral measure for government.
Still in terms of transportation, the COVID-19 pandemic has accelerated the shift to e-commerce. This is affecting urban delivery services, increasingly causing negative externalities such as air pollution, GHGs, noise, or safety problems for the most vulnerable users.
If e-commerce continues to grow and no structured plan to decarbonize delivery services is launched, the consequences I have just mentioned will intensify, prompting additional societal costs for public health.
Yesterday, the City of Montreal introduced its climate action plan, with the flagship measure of creating a zero-emission zone in the downtown core by 2030. As a result, in addition to cars, electric trucks and cargo bikes will be needed to transport people and goods. We therefore recommend working with Canadian municipalities to develop, implement and fund a strategy to decarbonize urban freight transportation.
In terms of agriculture, it is important to put our main recommendation into context with the ongoing discussions on the reform of risk management programs and the renewal of the Canadian agricultural partnership.
Let me quote from the news release issued by the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food following the recent meeting of the country's agriculture ministers:
FPT governments are listening to farmers and stakeholder groups, who have been asking for meaningful changes and alternatives to the current risk management approach. Ministers agreed that programs need to improve to better target emerging risks that threaten the viability of the farm...
To this end, we propose that the government create and fund a new AgriResilience program to support farmers in the transition to farming practices that promote healthy soil and use less carbon, thereby reducing the growing climate risk in this sector.
Farmers are among the first to feel the ever-growing impacts of climate change, such as crop losses, impacts on the GDP, profitability, the viability of rural communities, mental health, and government insurance programs, for which spending is bound to increase.
In the fall economic statement, we applauded the announcement of $98 million over 10 years to establish a new natural climate solutions fund. We have just learned that the government has announced new investments of $165.7 million over seven years for the new environmental plan. We applaud the news, but this will not be enough to cover the needs of the sector, nor will it cover all solutions. By comparison, the Farmers for Climate Solutions coalition, of which we are a member, is calling for $300 million for environmental programs in the 2021 budget alone.
In conclusion, I would like to remind you of a traditional request from Équiterre about fossil fuel subsidies. I hope that this is the last groundhog day for this request. We ask that the federal government publish, in Budget 2021, a roadmap to eliminate ineffective fossil fuel subsidies by 2025 to meet Canada's G20 commitment in this area. Canada must recognize that asset managers are increasingly reluctant to take on the risks associated with the Canadian fossil fuel industry.
It would be more beneficial to keep pace with the transition and create jobs in sectors of the future, rather than to continue to pay the bill for resisting the ongoing transition. We need to be proactive, not simply reactive, in supporting workers in industrial sectors affected by the transition.
I would like to thank you for taking the time to listen to me. I am available to answer your questions.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, Mr. Viau.
Our last witness on this panel will be Mr. Jules, chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission.
2:25 p.m.
C.T. Manny) Jules (Chief Commissioner, First Nations Tax Commission
Thank you very much.
Honourable members, good afternoon. My name is Manny Jules, and I am the chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission, one of three institutions created by the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, or FMA. I was also chief of the Tk'emlúps Indian Band from 1984 to 2000.
Thank you for this opportunity to address this committee. I have previously appeared before this committee to promote the FMA as a model for legislating first nations back into the federation and the Canadian economy.
The FMA model has worked. Today there are more than 300 first nations successfully using the FMA. They are developing their economies; providing improved services and infrastructure, including clean water; and building better relations with neighbouring governments.
Today I wish to discuss how we can build on this by expanding the first nations management act. Our plan will be to help indigenous economies recover. It will bring services and infrastructure up to Canadian standards. It will demonstrate the commitment to real reconciliation.
Past pandemics became opportunities for colonization and to legislate indigenous peoples out of the economy and federation. They were used as justification to take away our title and fiscal powers. They reduced us to dependents and wards of the state. But we are resilient. We have learned from our history. This time we were ready.
On March 24, the FMA institutions wrote to warn the federal government of the impending health and economic crisis facing our communities. On April 9, we followed up with a second letter, providing an estimate of the value of these impacts and proposing a recovery strategy. We advised that the impact on our economies would be devastating. We estimated that our governments and businesses could lose billions of dollars and thousands of jobs. Sadly, so far, we have been right.
We presented the government with an economic strategy to save emerging first nation economies that included practical proposals to help maintain services when revenues collapse. The government's economic response to our proposal was mixed. As measures were rolled out over the spring and summer, some of our proposals were supported and others were not.
An indigenous recovery strategy based on the proven success of the FMA framework will enhance the overall Canadian economic recovery. In that regard, we recommend the following measures for budget 2021.
First, expand the First Nations Fiscal Management Act to include our proposed first nations infrastructure institute, which, once operational, will speed up the development of our infrastructure and ensure that we get more bang for the buck. We estimate that, by building a legislative base and standards, we can start building first nations infrastructure up to five times faster than under the current regulatory framework.
Second, monetize existing federal infrastructure transfers so that more infrastructure can be built sooner. This is the most cost-effective way to provide stimulus. At the current interest rates, $150 million over 10 years can provide $1.3 billion in shovel-ready infrastructure now instead of over the next 10 years.
Third, expand indigenous fiscal powers to include sales, resources, tobacco, cannabis, excise and income, or taksis. We are the most transfer-dependent governments in Canada. Less than 5% of our government revenues come from our taxes. This is why most first nations have poor infrastructure and services, and why this infrastructure deteriorates more quickly.
Fourth, expand the mandates of the FMA institutions so they can provide more support to all interested indigenous governments and organizations.
Fifth, practically implement article 28(1) of UNDRIP and close the $172 billion indigenous credit gap with an indigenous land title registry.
The incredible success of the FMA has proven that optional, first nation-led legislation works and that first nation institutions are key to this success. First nations want to know that their institutional support will always be there no matter what economic path they choose going forward.
This indigenous recovery strategy as proposed will provide the foundation for a stronger indigenous investment climate. It will mean that we will have the same opportunities to participate in the national recovery strategy as all other Canadians.
I know that this committee in the past has strongly supported the fiscal management act and the work of the FMA institutions. I hope we can again count on the support of the members of this committee for these modest recommendations to expand the FMA, strengthen the institutions and provide first nations with the fiscal tools they will need to recover from COVID-19.
However, hope alone is not enough. We cannot let this pandemic leave another generation behind. Our chance to deliver change is now. Thank you.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Chief Commissioner Jules.
We will turn to our first round of questions, which is six minutes.
We have two McLeods today at the committee, so Cathy McLeod, the floor is yours.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you so much, and thank you to all the panellists.
I am from Kamloops and would especially like to welcome Manny to the panel today. I certainly will start with you.
I have witnessed the success there. One and a half months ago, Manny and I were at a historic opening. It was a new water reservoir funded primarily through development cost charges. That means $5 million of a $6.2 million project was funded by the band.
Then, of course, last week we had the current government acknowledging that they were going to fail in terms of delivering clean water to first nations. That was after five or six years and billions of dollars of commitment and it's going to be a failure. I think we have to recognize the system is broken in terms of delivery of infrastructure products.
I would first of all like to hear a little bit more about your first recommendation, because we have a system that's failing in spite of billions of dollars and I've witnessed success of having a different way to do things.
