Evidence of meeting #26 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-14.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Nicolas Moreau  Director General, Funds Management Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Lesley Taylor  Senior Director, Social Tax Policy, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Steven Coté  Executive Director, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Barbara Motzney  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Strategic Direction, Department of Western Economic Diversification
Maude Lavoie  Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Trevor McGowan  Senior Director, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Jocelyne Voisin  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
Shawn Porter  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 26 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance.

Pursuant to the order of reference of March 8, 2021, the committee is meeting to study Bill C-14, an act to implement certain provisions of the economic statement tabled in Parliament on November 30, 2020, and other measures, for the first two hours. For the third hour, pursuant to the order of reference of February 3, 2021, the committee is meeting to study Bill C-208, an act to amend the Income Tax Act regarding the transfer of a small business or family farm or fishing corporation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. Therefore, members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the website will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. I would remind folks that they're not supposed to take photos or screenshots of the proceedings.

I will leave out a lot of the rest of the preliminaries, but I will remind you that members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses.

I will not at this time go through the departmental witnesses, but will welcome Minister Freeland and officials from the Department of Finance and others. They as well will be here for the presentation with Minister Freeland

Before you start, Minister, we are going to be interrupted by votes. Your ears might have been burning before you sat in your chair, because we were having a discussion about how we could ensure that you're here for an hour. I just don't know how this is going to complicate things, but maybe you could respond to that and then go to your remarks.

3:30 p.m.

University—Rosedale Ontario

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland LiberalMinister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am in your hands when it comes to how we handle the voting and my presence here. It's up to you how you do that. I will follow your lead, sir.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay. I think we'll need unanimous consent to do this once the bells ring. We are under an obligation to hear the motion as well as vote, so if somebody could give us.... We'll deal with that when the bells start to ring. I'll have to ask for unanimous consent, but what I would suggest is that we continue to go to about 10 minutes before the vote. We have to click off our Zoom. If you want to get into the parliamentary Zoom, you have to click off this one, go on there and then back into this one. That's what I'd suggest.

Anyway, the floor is yours, Minister. Go ahead.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the invitation to be with you virtually today. Accompanying me virtually from the Department of Finance are Maude Lavoie, Dave Beaulne, Trevor McGowan, Lesley Taylor and Nicolas Moreau.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that today is a sombre anniversary. It is one year since COVID-19 was declared a global pandemic by the WHO.

On this national day of observance, I know that all of us honour the memories of all those who have lost their lives to this disease, and we have the deepest compassion, I know, all of us in this committee, for their families and their loved ones.

To the extraordinary Canadians who have been serving on the front lines in our country's fight against COVID-19, to personal support workers in long-term care facilities, to all of our health care workers and to the essential workers keeping food on our shelves, from cashiers to truck drivers, let me just say thank you.

I'm happy to be with you, parliamentary colleagues, to talk about Bill C-14, which would implement several important and necessary measures from the fall economic statement, which I tabled last November 30.

For over a year now, Canadians have been coping with an unprecedented crisis that is still in progress. But spring is coming and there will be better days ahead.

Until we've got COVID-19 under control, our government will do everything it can for as long as it's needed to help Canadians get through the crisis. From the beginning of the pandemic, the Government of Canada has done everything in its power to get the virus under control and limit its economic impacts. So far, $8 out of every $10 spent in Canada to combat COVID-19 and help Canadians came from the federal government.

In the 2020 fall economic statement, we set out a detailed plan to protect Canadians, jobs and companies in Canada during the pandemic's second wave. We took rapid action to meet these commitments.

By supporting Canadian businesses, jobs and families, not only were we helping our communities get through a difficult winter, but also preventing economic after-effects. This support will allow for a full and robust economic recovery once the virus is totally under control.

Bill C-14 is an important component of our government's economic plan. It makes it possible to move forward with the emergency measures outlined in the economic statement designed to provide immediate assistance to families with young children, students and businesses, in addition to measures to protect the health and safety of Canadians.

When we debate Bill C-14, here is what is concretely hanging in the balance.

The fall economic statement announced a new $1 billion safe long-term care fund to help provinces and territories protect seniors. Of this, Bill C-14 would provide $505.7 million immediately, while our need is most urgent, to support long-term care facilities over the coming months to help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and to help prevent outbreaks and deaths in supportive care facilities.

In addition, we have proposed, through this bill, to provide up to $395.6 million to support a range of health initiatives to help Canadians cope during the pandemic and to continue our fight against the virus with vaccine funding and development, testing and treatment.

The challenges brought on by this pandemic have caused great hardship for Canadian families with young children and brought unanticipated costs. Bill C-14 proposes to provide immediate relief for low- and middle-income families with young children who are entitled to the Canada child benefit by providing up to $1,200 in 2021 for each child under the age of six. Families that have a net income at or below $120,000 would receive four tax-free payments of $300. Families entitled to the CCB who have a net income above $120,000 would receive four tax-free payments of $150, for a total benefit of $600.

This temporary assistance would directly benefit more than 1.5 million families and more than two million children at a time when many are still grappling with the financial impacts of the pandemic.

If I can speak personally for one moment, I am hearing so clearly from my neighbours and constituents who have young children just how hard COVID is for them. I know we would all love to give them this extra support. As you all know, we can't get it to them until Bill C-14 receives royal assent.

Our government is also working to protect the future of students who had to leave school or who were unable to obtain summer internships or jobs.

Through Bill C-14 we will eliminate interest on repayment of the federal portion of Canada student loans and Canada apprentice loans for 2021-2022. This important measure will provide $329.4 million to 1.4 million Canadians who are looking for work or who are in the early stages of their career.

The bill also formalizes an amendment to the Income Tax Act that will allow the Canada emergency rent subsidy to recognize rent payable as an eligible expense, provided certain conditions are met.

As members of this committee will recall, the Canada Revenue Agency is currently administering the rent subsidy with rent payable as an eligible expense. This is because the businesses relying on this subsidy told us that it was what they needed, and all of us listened. Not all small businesses have the cash flow to pay their rent on the first of the month with the reimbursement to come later. This bill ensures that those small businesses can get the support they need. Again, I'm sure we've all heard from small businesses in our ridings who really need that support.

Additionally, Bill C-14 authorizes payments to Canada's six regional development agencies for the regional relief and recovery fund. The government announced the $962-million fund on April 17, and then expanded it to $1.5 billion on October 2. As a next step, Bill C-14 proposes a further top-up, to $2 billion, for this fund. It helps support businesses that for one reason or another are unable to access other federal pandemic support programs.

The point I'm making here is really simple: The measures in Bill C-14 are essential. Canadian families and Canadian businesses need this support to get through the crisis.

Colleagues, today let's set aside partisan sparring and work together to support the people all of us serve. I welcome vigorous debate, care and study. Indeed, debate has been central to Canada's response to COVID-19 so far. Our government has received constructive input from all parties, very much including all the members of this committee. I recognize the critical role parliamentary committees play in scrutinizing government legislation. I understand that the opposition's formal role is to oppose, and that delay forms part of the opposition tool kit in the Westminster parliamentary system. I get that. When I was first elected, I sat in the opposition benches. I asked questions in committee of the member for Abbotsford, who now sits in this committee with us all, when he served as trade minister.

That said, it is now time for us to move forward. Canadians need the concrete support this bill offers, and they need it urgently. At second reading, some of our colleagues on the opposition benches set partisan politics aside to do what is best for Canadians and supported the bill. I was frankly surprised that the Conservatives chose to do the opposite. I was surprised they did that even as they put forward an opposition day motion urging the government to support small business.

I say to my Conservative colleagues, on this committee and in the House, that—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

I have point of order.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Did you want me to wrap up?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

No. There's a point of order first.

Pat.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Yes, but she may have anticipated that. I would suggest that, speaking of delay, perhaps instead of going through the history of debate on the bill, it would be fantastic if the minister would like to add substance about the bill. Otherwise, let's just go to the questions, please.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I think the minister is getting close to wrapping up.

Minister.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

I sure am.

I spoke to the substance of the bill, the measures that are really important, personally important for me and for all of us, but it is really relevant to talk about how long it's taking to get this support to Canadians.

The purpose of Bill C-14 is to provide assistance to Canadians who need it during a difficult and unprecedented period. It should not be used for political advantage.

I urge this committee to conduct its examinations expeditiously and to join me in supporting the speedy passage of this essential legislation.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

We will go to a six-minute round. The lineup will be Ed Fast first, followed by a split between Mr. Fragiskatos and Ms. Dzerowicz, then Mr. Ste-Marie and then Mr. Julian.

Mr. Clerk, could you inform us when the bells start to ring? I don't know whether we hear them in this format or not.

Mr. Fast, the floor is yours for six minutes.

March 11th, 2021 / 3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before committee.

I just want to remind you that this committee's work is not about delay and it is not about politics. It was unfortunate that you launched into a political attack just as you were claiming that this was not about politics. This committee's work is actually about scrutiny. It's about accountability and oversight. Our job is to do that.

Let me get into the questions. First, when will you be tabling a federal budget?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

As I said in the House today, Mr. Fast, we have conducted extensive pre-budget consultations and had great input from Canadians. We will be tabling a budget in due course.

I would also point out that the fall economic statement included extensive financial information and projections.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Your fall economic statement is not a budget. In eight days from now, it will be exactly two years since your predecessor tabled a federal budget, and that's two years that Canadians have been without a plan for our economy. That's the longest period in history that Canada has gone without a budget. Why?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Mr. Fast, I believe our country has been supported by a very strong plan throughout this unprecedented pandemic. Our government has said we will do whatever it takes to support Canadians and Canadian businesses, and we have done that. Thanks to the resilience and entrepreneurial spirit of Canadians, we are seeing the results.

In the fourth quarter of this year the Canadian economy grew by nearly 10%. That is better than what we saw from the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France and Italy. Our economic measures are working, and we're going to continue the course.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, I just remind you that in December our economy lost 53,000 jobs. Then in January we lost another 213,000 jobs, so somehow you're not getting the job done.

Let me turn to part 7 of Bill C-14

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Fast, I will have to interrupt you for a minute. The bells are ringing, so we need unanimous consent to continue.

What I would suggest is that we continue to 10 minutes before the vote. I believe we will have to go to the parliamentary Zoom. This is still a new system, and people have to be in front of their camera if there's a glitch in the system. I would suggest that we go to 10 minutes before, suspend and come back, and hopefully the minister can come back with us and get through the hour.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Mr. Chair, I don't want to take up any more time than necessary here, but I think that's far more time than we need with the app. Could we not continue on through the entire period of the bells to allow each member a question, and then maybe stop for a minute or two to vote? If any member of the committee has a problem with the vote that would necessitate their connecting to raise a point of order to have their vote count, we could deal with that eventuality then. Otherwise, let's continue on with the meeting.

Furthermore, if there's no unanimous consent for that position, or in either event, I would like the minister to maybe commit that we will have a full hour with her either way.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

The minister is shaking her head yes, I believe.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Yes. I am happy to commit to that.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay.

Can we get unanimous consent to go to 10 minutes before the bell—it's one vote—and then come back immediately following the vote? The minister will be here with us for the hour.

Is that agreed? Okay.

Mr. Fast, go ahead.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Let me turn to part 7 of Bill C-14. That part effectively increases Canada's debt ceiling from $1.17 trillion to $1.83 trillion.

Am I correct, Minister? Just answer with a yes or no.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

That was more than a yes-or-no question, and let me just say—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

No, I just asked whether you are increasing the debt ceiling from $1.17 trillion to $1.83 trillion. It's yes or no.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

As I understand the rules, Mr. Fast, my answer can be the same length as your question.

Is that correct?