Finance Committee on March 11th, 2021

[Lesley Taylor, Senior Director, Social Tax Policy, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Mr. Chair, I can try that one.

Thank you for the question. I think one thing that's important to recognize—and the minister touched on this—is that royal assent for the legislation is a prerequisite for these payments to flow. The rationale for that is obviously that this is creating a new draw on the consolidated revenues of the government, and a prior legislative basis for making those payments needs to be established.

The Canada Revenue Agency is responsible for administering these payments. They will be looking to get them out as soon as they can, but they do have to take into account their other obligations in terms of delivering other payments to Canadians. What I understand is that they will make their best efforts to get the payments out within a few weeks of the royal assent date, likely towards the end of the month. Subsequent payments would then flow as per the legislation in April, July and October of 2021.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Excellent. Thank you very much. I think it's encouraging to hear that once this passes, support could flow to families within a matter of weeks. That's really remarkable. Thank you.

There are certain amendments to the Canada emergency response benefit that are included in this legislation. My understanding is that because the initial program was authorized to issue payments during the previous calendar year, there are some people who are entitled to benefits who can't receive them quite yet.

Can you confirm that this is the case and explain how this bill will actually allow money to flow to CERB recipients who are entitled to certain benefits?

[Steven Coté, Executive Director, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Sure. I can take that one.

As you know, as you just said, the Public Health Events of National Concern Payments Act provides authority up until the end of the year, December 31, to pay for those who applied for CERB benefits. This bill amendment will allow the authority to continue until March 31, to allow those payments to be made.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Excellent. How many CERB recipients who currently can't access the funding they may be entitled to are we talking about?

[Steven Coté]

The majority of CERB recipients have received their payments. A number of recipients who required additional verification are still being processed. They are the ones who would ideally be paid for this once the authority is put in place.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do you know how many people are currently going through the verification process?

[Steven Coté]

I don't have the exact number. CRA would have to confirm.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much. Is there any time remaining, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes. You have one more minute.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure. I'll go down my list and pick one of the many questions I have left.

I wanted to discuss the regional relief and recovery fund. Over the course of this pandemic, many of the government's emergency programs have changed to reflect the changing circumstances in the economy or the length of the pandemic. Certain changes included expansions of the Canada emergency business account.

Is it the case that this bill would expand the regional relief and recovery fund for businesses that may not have qualified for CEBA, so that they can have equivalent support through the RRRF? In addition, once this bill passes, will that support be ready to flow to businesses that may need these supports?

[Barbara Motzney, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Strategic Direction, Department of Western Economic Diversification]

Absolutely. The regional development agencies have received some 31,000 applications for $2.95 billion since the beginning of the program. They're still coming in strong. We get about 480 applications a week for a total of about $46 million a week. There's absolutely continuing demand.

This program was introduced as a backstop for other COVID relief programs. As CEBA evolved to go from $40,000 to $60,000, so will the funding in this bill allow the RRRF to mirror that program change. We will continue to be a backstop for the other COVID relief programs.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Will the money from this bill be able to flow immediately upon its adoption?

[Barbara Motzney]

Absolutely. As I mentioned, we have a lot of applications in-house. We're currently processing them, and as soon as the money is available, I assure you it will flow.

We've helped some 19,000 businesses across the country, with $1.4 billion so far out the door, and we definitely have applications and approvals ready to go.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to begin by sincerely thanking all of you here among us for the remarkable work you've accomplished in these strange times. It's been a year now, today. You have never let up, and that makes a big difference. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

My questions are for the representatives of the Department of Finance. Perhaps you, Mr. Moreau, could answer them. Otherwise, please direct me to whichever of your colleagues is the most appropriate person to do so.

In the 2020 fall economic statement, the government announced that it would be introducing a reimbursement of expenses for energy-efficient renovations. That was approximately four months ago.

Will this program be available before the next budget, or has its implementation been delayed so that it can be linked to the budget?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Does anybody from the Department of Finance want to give that one a roll?

[Maude Lavoie, Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Good afternoon.

I'd just like to mention that the officials online at the moment are not those who worked on this program. We'll have to get back to you later with an answer.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay. Thank you, Ms. Lavoie, for your answer. If you could tell us in writing when the program will be available, it would be greatly appreciated.

My second question is also about the 2020 fall economic statement. I'll probably get the same answer to this one.

The Association des personnes handicapées visuelles de Lanaudière, an organization in my riding, asked me about funding from the Centre for Equitable Library Access. On page 154 of the French version of the 2020 fall economic statement, it says in the table that assistance will go from $4 million for the next fiscal year to zero dollars in 2024-25, decreasing gradually by $1 million per year. These people are truly worried about this.

What was the reason for this decision?

[Maude Lavoie]

Unfortunately, once again, the people who could answer that question are not online.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Chair, I will stop now so that we can move on to the study of Bill C-208 a little more quickly.

Thanks to everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I know Elizabeth May had one question, but I believe she's gone.

We'll go to Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to add my voice to my colleagues' to thank all the witnesses for the work they have done during this pandemic. We hope that they and their families remain safe and sound during the pandemic.

I have a few questions, Mr. Chair, and it might take more or less time. It will all depend on the answers. So I hope you'll cut me a little slack over the next few minutes.

I want to start by following up on the minister's comments around the emergency wage subsidy program and that the improper use of it, such as dividend payments, stock buybacks and executive bonuses, is something that is not tolerated.

I would like to know a couple of things on that. First off, do we have an indication from the ministry of finance what the rate of non-compliance is? How are those cases of non-compliance generated? Is it complaint-based or is it something that is investigated, for example, when there are articles in the Financial Post, where dozens of companies were cited that had paid out dividends and received massive amounts of subsidies at the same time?

Then, what is the process, whether the complaint is from the outside or is flagged internally? Do you contact the company? Do you issue a notice? Are you investigating or is there an attempt at prosecution?

This is my global question. What are you doing in response to these widespread complaints about improper use of wage subsidy and other government programs by very profitable Canadian corporations?

[Trevor McGowan, Senior Director, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Thank you for the question.

The administration of the wage subsidy and the investigation of compliance related to it is the responsibility of the Canada Revenue Agency. The Department of Finance works on policy, preparing legislation, and the design and implementation of the wage subsidy and other income tax matters. The Canada Revenue Agency handles the investigation and would have compliance statistics.

One thing that would perhaps be a good idea to clarify is that the wage subsidy itself is based upon a reimbursement model. When an employer pays an employee wages, they get a certain per cent of that back under the wage subsidy program, assuming they qualify. By the time an applicant for the wage subsidy receives their refundable tax credit—the amount of the subsidy—they've already paid the wages to which it relates. That's the relationship between the wage subsidy and the payment of wages. Because it comes afterwards, there isn't that same question about whether or not a wage subsidy received will be spent on wages in the future.

In terms of general compliance—for example, in cases where people are making fraudulent claims—the statistics and the responsibility for enforcing that would lie with the Canada Revenue Agency.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Do they not share any information with you? Are you not aware of any issues around non-compliance?