Evidence of meeting #4 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was documents.

A video is available from Parliament.

documentsclerkstudent service grantprivy councilpublic servants

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Evelyn Lukyniuk

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

He agrees.

My apologies, Mr. Ste-Marie.

Mr. Clerk, could you let us know when we're in camera?

As spoken

The Clerk

We will have to leave this meeting. Ms. Evelyn Lukyniuk, the clerk of the committee, is going to circulate new links with new passwords. We will have to click on those links and come back in a new Zoom format, so everybody has to leave this Zoom meeting.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

All right. This is our new technology. Oh, dear.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We shall reconvene. We're in public. We will start where we left off this morning.

I have Ms. Koutrakis, Ms. Dzerowicz and then Mr. Poilievre.

Ms. Koutrakis, the floor is yours.

As spoken

Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to attempt to explain how the Access to Information Act was applied to the documents provided to the committee by Employment and Social Development Canada.

Unfortunately, we are now well into October, and almost into November, and the Government of Canada is still working in lockstep to ensure that we are doing everything we can to protect Canadians from the COVID-19 virus. Unfortunately, we're well into the second wave, and I'm pretty sure there's a third one down the road. This has been our priority since the start of the pandemic.

Mr. Chair, when it became obvious—

As spoken

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

What's your point of order, Mr. Poilievre?

As spoken

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Ms. Koutrakis is referencing a statute that is not at stake in this discussion. I have a letter here from the law clerk, who says:

We note that the House's and its committees' power to order the production of records is absolute and unfettered as it constitutes a constitutional parliamentary privilege that supersedes statutory obligations, such as—

As spoken

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, that's debate.

As spoken

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

—the exemptions found in the Access to Information Act.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Poilievre, I believe that is not a point of order. That is debate. I will let Ms. Koutrakis continue.

As spoken

Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When it became obvious—

As spoken

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

But the act doesn't apply, Mr. Chair.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Ms. Koutrakis—

As spoken

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

The act doesn't apply to this debate. The Access to Information Act does not apply.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Poilievre, we're into debate—

As spoken

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Chair, I'm interrupting the discussion.

The interpreters can't do their job when everyone is talking at the same time. I repeat this several times at each meeting. Please be disciplined on Zoom, out of respect for the interpreters.

Thank you.

Translated

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm allowing Mr. Ste-Marie in.

I'm not getting the English translation, Mr. Ste-Marie, but I expect you said that when more than one person is speaking, the translators cannot do their job.

We're back to Ms. Koutrakis, who is starting her remarks.

As spoken

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Can I raise a point of order?

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Yes, you can, Ms. Jensen, if it's a point of order.

As spoken

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Well, it's about relevance.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay.

As spoken

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Because that's not what we're discussing right now, it's not relevant, that ATIP information.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I think it is relevant.

As spoken

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair?

As spoken