Finance Committee on June 17th, 2021

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

When you have a bad policy, that's when you hide.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, guys, we're getting foolish here and we're probably televised.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I think I've been drinking too much coffee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Anyway, we'll wait another few minutes here and see where we end up.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, if we do end up delaying the witness's appearance, just for the convenience of members of the committee, if the clerk could undertake to work with the witness in advance of the meeting to secure a stable connection, it would really help to make sure we don't run into the exact same problem the next time around.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

That's what I meant by better-tested technology.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

For Mr. Bilodeau, I think they were already working on it for an hour and a half, but in any event, we have to find something. This is something that we haven't run into.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, is Mr. Bilodeau appearing from a KPMG office?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I have no idea.

According to the clerk, yes, he is.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I am a little astounded that with a multi-billion dollar company there are so many difficulties in actually getting a link.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, is there any chance that we could actually have him appear in person here in Ottawa?

We have this whole room here. There are COVID protocols in place. We're allowed to sit here. It seems to me that the distance we have available here in the room would allow him to safely provide his testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We can certainly ask for that.

[Serge Bilodeau]

Yes, good afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There's Mr. Bilodeau now.

Welcome. I believe we're going to voice.

[Serge Bilodeau]

Yes, can you hear me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes, we have you.

Can you hear us?

[Serge Bilodeau]

Yes, I can hear you fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Translation, can you pick that up?

[Serge Bilodeau]

I can hear very well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

All right. Mr. Bilodeau can hear fine.

Mr. Kelly, do you want to repeat your question and we'll go from there?

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay.

I really want to know about the scope. I'll go a little further with the question just to ask about the scope of overseas products offered in the Montreal office when the witness was there. I think he said in his opening statement that on a couple of occasions, he'd been involved in that.

Can he comment? Was tax planning involving overseas products a common or widely used strategy in the Montreal office when he worked there?

[Serge Bilodeau]

Actually, the product, what we call OCS planning, that is to say the foreign company structure, was offered on a national basis, not only in Montreal.

However, in terms of my responsibility to the clients, my involvement in both situations was from Montreal.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay, so what changed? When did your business stop offering overseas products and why?

[Serge Bilodeau]

The planning was developed by a group of senior tax experts, led by a man named Barrie Philp, and it was developed on a national level. The analysis was done on a national level. Then it was explained locally, in each of the provinces. When the situation was appropriate, it was discussed with the client and, if they agreed, it was implemented.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I'm not sure that was an answer to my question. I wanted to know when.

Was there a date or a time period at which KPMG stopped offering overseas products? I think the earlier testimony suggested that there was a time at which KPMG ceased offering this kind of tax plan.