Evidence of meeting #9 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was als.
A video is available from Parliament.
Interim Executive Director, Oxfam Canada
The answer is yes. The YWCA has recently published a report. Figures from the Centre for Future Work show an increase of government revenue of up to $29 billion, an increase in employment for child care workers and associate suppliers of child care and early learning spaces of up to 725,000 jobs, and an increase in Canada's GDP of around $100 billion a year. It is very significant. I do think the return is there.
Thank you very much, Mr. Fraser.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, both.
Mr. Ste-Marie, you have six minutes, followed by Mr. Julian and then Mr. Poilievre.
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to start by acknowledging all the guests who have come to speak. It's always very informative.
My questions are for Ms. Higgins from Oxfam Canada.
I'll pick up from where you left off in the discussion with Mr. Fraser.
In Quebec, we have a family policy with subsidized early childhood centres. Studies show that this pays off for the government. The investment in the early childhood centres and in the entire family policy results in a higher rate of participation of women in the labour market. These women then pay more taxes. This not only creates social change in the very structure of society, it pays off, even though it requires money up front.
If the federal government were to implement this type of program, we would ask for a right to opt out with full compensation for Quebec. This would enable Quebec to improve its system, which is already working.
I've said enough.
Ms. Higgins, I want you to elaborate on your request for changes to employment insurance.
In concrete terms, what are you suggesting and what can be changed?
Is it the waiting periods, the premium rates or the number of hours?
I'd like you to elaborate on the changes that you're asking for.
Interim Executive Director, Oxfam Canada
I think the bottom line for us is that our EI system needs to be modernized. There is lots that we can learn from the CERB rollout that we should be transferring to an EI modernization.
Our point is that, with the nature of the labour market and particularly the nature of jobs where many women are working in very precarious, low-paid work, these jobs are not necessarily covered by employment insurance or the benefits are not good enough, and they have to move from one job to another.
What we are saying is that it needs to be more agile. It needs to require lower thresholds for qualification and engagement in the employment insurance system, and it needs to have improved benefits that meet income adequacy standards. What we really mean by this is that EI should be providing a living wage to those who are claiming it.
It's very important, and I think that if there's anything that COVID has shown us, it's that our EI system needs to modernize, to get with the times, in order to make sense for the sort of labour market we have, to really give employment protection to those who most need it.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Ms. Higgins, thank you for that very clear answer.
On Monday, in its economic statement, the government announced a certain amount of money for a recovery plan that would come later, perhaps in the next budget. The pandemic is still ongoing. However, when we emerge from it, an economic recovery plan could be implemented.
I think that you're suggesting that the government invest in the green economy.
Would this be a good opportunity to invest in the green economy, as we emerge from the COVID-19 pandemic? How could this be done?
Interim Executive Director, Oxfam Canada
This is absolutely an opportunity for us to invest in the green economy.
Thank you for your question.
Let me focus first on the care economy. When we think about the care economy, we don't necessarily think about that as a green investment. Our point that we outline in our budget brief is that investing in the care economy is a really powerful way for us to drive our economy in a low-carbon way.
I think that would be the first point I would make, for us just to take a step back and make that link between investments in the green economy and investments in the care economy, and how the care economy is a fantastic opportunity for us to drive low-carbon jobs.
There is lots else I could say, but I'll leave it at that.
Thank you for your question.
Liberal
Interim Executive Director, Oxfam Canada
Sure.
My second point would be that I think investment in the green economy is absolutely critical. What we are calling for is that investment in the green economy take into account the diversity of people who need jobs. We need to ensure that the investment in a low-carbon economy, in a green economy, is taking into account indigenous jobs and jobs for people from racialized backgrounds and Black Canadians, so we can really ensure that our investment in the green economy also provides an opportunity for us to tackle critical inequalities that we have in Canada.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, all.
We'll turn to Mr. Julian, who will be followed by Mr. Poilievre.
Mr. Julian, go ahead.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of our witnesses for their excellent presentations. We hope that you and your families are all safe and healthy during this pandemic.
I have three questions. I'll try to go through them quickly.
The first is for Ms. Higgins. We are living with profound inequality that has been exacerbated during this pandemic. We've seen billionaires adding $53 billion to their wealth, and bank profit figures this week that were through the roof. Yet, as you point out, making investments in national child care would actually mean an economic boom for Canada.
Do you think it's a question of choices? Right now we have no wealth tax. We have no excess-profits tax as we had in the Second World War. We lose $25 billion a year to overseas tax havens. We spend billions of dollars on supports to the oil and gas sector. Do you feel that we should be taking a different set of priorities, investing in things like child care and putting in place a fair tax system so that the wealthiest and most privileged actually have to pay their fair share of taxes?
Interim Executive Director, Oxfam Canada
Yes, absolutely. Oxfam Canada and Oxfam are in favour of a wealth tax. We have seen, as you said, huge increases in inequality globally and in this country. In Canada, the top 1% own significantly more wealth than the bottom 70%, so we do think a wealth tax is one important strategy, one important tactic, one important tax that we can use to try to drive down this inequality that we have seen. That would be my first point.
My second point—and I do know that I sound like a broken record, but I am trying to be absolutely crystal clear—is that the opportunity that we have to invest in the care economy is here. It is now. The public understands that this COVID pandemic has shone a light on the criticality of the care economy to our families, to our communities and to our economy. I think there is really rising and very strong evidence that demonstrates that child care, investment in the care sector, will end up paying for itself.
As I said, it is a critical strategy for ensuring that women can re-enter the workforce post-pandemic and during the pandemic. We have seen a huge reduction in labour force participation by women, so that is one strategy and one way that we can boost economic growth. It will also provide jobs to women who are our child care workers, who are our long-term care workers, who are our health care workers.
There are two points we outline in the brief that I would also like to emphasize—
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Sorry, but if you don't mind, I have to move on to the next question.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Your brief was excellent. As we've pointed out, very prosperous countries like Norway and Switzerland have wealth taxes, so it's about time Canada started being smart about its tax system. Thank you.
Ms. Moore, all of us can think of people we know with ALS. I'm thinking of my good friend Norm MacIsaac, whom I taught with. In one minute, could you tell us what would happen if you didn't get the $35 million over five years, and what would happen if you received more than that $35 million budget? What would you be able to do in addition?
Chief Executive Officer, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Society of Canada
Thank you.
I'm actually going to turn this question over to Dr. Taylor, as he represents our research program.
Vice-President, Research, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Society of Canada
If we do not get the $35 million, then we will do as we always do, which is to fight for our community and scrap and scrounge until we do it, because this absolutely has to happen. But we feel that this is a tremendous gap that we have, and we've just heard about the support and the needs for support across the country. Our grassroots fundraising across Canada by the dedicated ALS community goes a long way towards support. We need to look to the government to be able to fill that gap in terms of research funding, especially so we can get to that point where pharmaceutical investment is profound here in Canada and can support ALS research in a prominent way.
In terms of what we could do with more money, with regard to CAPTURE ALS, we could make sure that every person diagnosed with ALS in Canada could be part of CAPTURE ALS. Right now we're looking at 1,000 people, but we could do so much more, and I think we could certainly turn this into a treatable disease much faster if we had more funds.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much.
Mr. Saras, I represent a riding with 150 different languages, so the ethnic press is the main press in my community as far as I'm concerned.
You've outlined the lack of supports you've gotten during the pandemic. Can you tell us a bit about the impact of competition from companies like Facebook that don't pay taxes in Canada? They are able to compete and run many of your associates and many of the media out of business because the government has never put in any regulations and never required them to pay income tax in Canada.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Ethnic Press and Media Council of Canada
In the last few years, we tried to reach the government in order to solve this problem. The foreign companies receive about $170 million in advertisements from the Government of Canada and they don't pay a penny in tax. We are working day and night trying to survive without any advertisements from the Government of Canada, sometimes from the provincial government or even the local governments, and we try to survive the way we can.
The problem is that.... We employ Canadians; we are giving money to Canadians. At the same time, a member of the ethnic press is an unpaid civil servant. He is offering the ability to new Canadians to learn about the culture and the politics of the new country and to help them integrate into mainstream Canadian society. Unfortunately, we have been cut off from any help anywhere.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, all.
Mr. Poilievre, we're on with you, and because we are going to run into some time, I'm going to give you a six-minute round.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Thank you very much.
Dr. Mintz, the government seems to think, and so does the Bank of Canada, that we don't need to worry about the monstrous debts that the public and private sectors are building up. We now have the highest debt-to-GDP ratio by far in the G7, with the exception of Japan, at 384% debt-to-GDP ratio of public and private combined. This is far and away the biggest we've ever faced in Canada.
The bank and the government say, don't worry, interest rates are low and they won't go up until the economy improves. However, you know better than anyone that rates skyrocketed in the late 1970s from 8% to 22%, even though we had a miserably poor economy—bad growth, high unemployment. Interest rates rose to contain out-of-control inflation.
You've pointed out that we have a supply shock and that supply shock puts upward pressure on prices. Do you think there's a chance that we could be surprised by inflation in the medium term and that interest rates may rise more quickly than any of the decision-makers in the government tell us?
President's Fellow, School of Public Policy, University of Calgary, As an Individual
First of all, I think right now if spending was held down for the next number of years, to grow with population and prices as an example, and we were able to deal with some of our other issues that we need to deal with, I think we're okay.
However, if we keep running large deficits over the next number of years and debt continues to pile up where net debt.... Even the economic and fiscal update suggests it could rise by 2025 to 60%, which is starting to get very...and that's just at the federal level, never mind the provincial level.
Of course, you mentioned our household and corporate debt on top of that, but leaving that aside for a moment, we will get to a point where a highly indebted country may find all of a sudden that international investors are worried about holding that debt, and that could cause credit spreads to increase and interest rates to rise much more quickly than we expect.
So, yes, I think the threat is there, and the threat will become apparent over the next five years, especially if we repeat the period 1976 to 1985, roughly, when we ran very large primary deficits where we not only didn't cover any interest expense, but didn't cover our program expenditures. My biggest fear is that we're going to get into that.
