Finance Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome to the committee all of the witnesses today. It is great to be back on pre-budget submissions, listening to the various stakeholders from across our country.

I would like to start with B'nai Brith.

Thank you for being here, gentlemen.

About two months ago, I visited the Toronto Holocaust Museum. I went down there and took a tour. Many years ago, I had the opportunity to visit Yad Vashem. One of the things that struck me is the level of disinformation and misinformation—folks not believing that the events of the Holocaust actually happened. It's especially younger folks, if I can say that. It's what the data brings out. It is scary. What is also scary is the level of anti-Semitism we are seeing here in Canada. Jewish Canadians do not deserve that in any manner. I come from the city of Vaughan. We have a very vibrant Jewish community, among many others. I think over 120 languages are spoken in the city I live in—one of the ridings I get to represent.

My first question to B'nai Brith is with regard to the anti-racism strategy and countering the disinformation and anti-Semitism we're seeing. What are the most effective tools the government can provide?

[Richard Robertson]

I would like to point to the second recommendation in our submission, which is our strategy for an IHRA literacy program. Canada adopted the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism in 2019. It is part of our anti-racism strategy, which was renewed in 2024 for another four-year period. However, there is a disconnect between the government strategy and its implementation. As a result, we aren't seeing enough familiarity with the strategy and the definition among the general public. That's leading to the growing figures as they relate to Holocaust denialism and disinformation.

By ensuring the next generation of Canadians—that's why we specifically want to target secondary and post-secondary students—is familiar with and understands the IHRA definition and what really constitutes contemporary anti-Semitism, we can begin to reduce some of those alarming figures you alluded to. The IHRA has a working definition. It's a guide. It has examples. If you don't understand the examples or are not using the guide, and if the guide isn't made expressly available to all Canadians, we're not properly implementing the definition.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I have a follow-up question on recommendation four, which I find very interesting.

Why is a digital archive of all records important to B'nai Brith?

[Richard Robertson]

It is extremely important to B'nai Brith because we're now almost 100 years removed from the Holocaust. We have access to the first-hand testimony of survivors less and less each year. It's important that we are able to learn from our past as a nation, and that all Holocaust records are made available to the public so we can have clarity on Canada's role in the immigration of members of the Nazi Party and their affiliates to Canada. It's also so we can use those records to further advance our ability to teach the Holocaust and spread Holocaust education across the country.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Of course, I hope to see the remaining hostages released and a ceasefire come into effect, so peace can come to that area of the world, which we know is facing mounting concerns. With today's events, it's a growing concern, obviously.

I want to change channels and go to the CLC.

Sir, you're an economist. I'm an economist. I heard much of your testimony today. I want to talk about one recommendation you brought up in regard to labour market transfers.

We know the federal government provides the provinces with a lot of money. I would say there's a ton of money in labour market transfers in order to make sure Canadians have the skills to succeed in today's economy and labour market. You asked for, I believe, a top-up to labour market transfers.

Can we have a general review of labour market transfers? Sometimes just sending more money to the provinces may not be the answer.

[Dr. D.T. Cochrane]

Absolutely. More money is not an answer in and of itself.

However, this is a program that is proven to work quite well. Programs that are working well in times when there is a need for the kinds of supports they provide deserve to get more funding in order to provide more of that support. We think this kind of successful program in a time when—this has already been mentioned—our labour markets are getting weaker and weaker.... There's more and more upheaval in the kinds of jobs and employment people have access to.

We need the kind of work that this money would help get done.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Before the chair cuts me off—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Sorbara, we are actually over time.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Now we're going to MP Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Tassé‑Goodman, in two and a half minutes, could you summarize your requests regarding experienced workers?

[Philippe Poirier-Monette]

Thank you for your question.

We are in the middle of a labour shortage, and we think seniors represent a valuable pool of potential workers. That pool is open to everyone, but seniors need to be encouraged to work. We often state that, according to a Quebec Employers Council survey, about 50% of those who continue working or return to work were incentivized by tax measures.

In 2021, during the election campaign, the government committed to setting up a tax credit for experienced workers. I note, in fact, that all political parties also proposed it. Implementation of this tax measure isn’t happening quickly. As Ms. Tassé‑Goodman noted in her opening remarks, this type of tax credit was created in Quebec and was relatively successful. Since 2012, employment rates among women went up from 7% to 8%, and among men from 3% to 4%. That means this measure had an impact.

As Ms. Tassé‑Goodman was saying, if the government does not want to set up a tax credit for experienced workers, it could consider increasing the employment income exemption when calculating the Guaranteed Income Supplement. That is what is proposed in Bill C‑319. That would be worthwhile. I remind you these people are the least fortunate. It could reduce the effect of the tax trap that discourages working.

So, those are two proposals for experienced workers that we would like to see implemented.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You still have half a minute.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

What could you add, in one minute if possible, about the non-refundable caregiver tax credit?

[Philippe Poirier-Monette]

In our pre-budget brief, we referenced the government’s promise in 2021 to broaden the Canada caregiver credit and make it refundable. We think it’s important to make this measure a reality. I remind you that caregivers represent about 34% of the population. The majority of them, about 60%, are women. Furthermore, 20% of caregivers live in financial insecurity. They spend an average of $8,000 a year on their loved ones. We must understand they represent a significant contingent of workers. To replace caregivers, we would have to hire about 1.2 million professionals. That means they play an important role and we have to support them accordingly.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

Now we will go to MP Davies, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cochrane, when we left off, you mentioned that the federal government pulled back in terms of investment in non-market housing. Can you tell me approximately when that pullback began?

[Dr. D.T. Cochrane]

That was in the eighties, if I'm remembering my housing financing history correctly.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Has there been any change in that over the last, say, 25 years, or since the year 2000?

[Dr. D.T. Cochrane]

No. That has remained the prevailing wisdom as part of this widely accepted narrative that the government had little to no role to play in the economy and housing was understood to be something that should be provided by the market, so governments retreated.

The current dire situation we're in has really been decades in the making. This did not happen overnight. This is because of that narrative having led to all sorts of policies that meant we were not building housing at the scale that was needed. The population grew at a pretty predictable rate, which meant housing needs were quite predictable, but we weren't building the housing that we needed. Now we are where we are.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

In your pre-budget submission, you spoke of a request for the federal government to reverse the financialization of housing, which contributes to rising rents, among other things. Can you please outline the steps the CLC would like the federal government to take to accomplish that?

[Dr. D.T. Cochrane]

First and foremost, the preferential tax treatment of REITs needs to be eliminated. We eliminated preferential tax treatment for other sorts of investment trusts. There is no reason to keep it in place for REITs.

The justification for it is that this will bring financing into the housing market that then will build the housing that we need. I think the experiment is a failure, and we need to do what we did four decades after the war and just build the housing that needs to be built, instead of trying to do tricks with tax rates to incentivize the kind of financial investment that we want. We didn't get that. We just got more financialization and more assetization of housing through these REITs, which turn housing into assets first and homes second. They should be homes first.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chair, I can't see you. How much time do I have?