Finance Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Anne Kothawala]

That is correct.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

That's correct. Okay.

Therefore, your members will be subject to the capital gains increase if they wish to sell their store and have had a gain in the value of that store.

[Anne Kothawala]

That would be correct. That's my understanding.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay.

Are your members ultrarich?

[Anne Kothawala]

No, they are not.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I didn't think so, but I wanted to be clear about that.

[Anne Kothawala]

They are not.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

The minister told us that only the top 0.13% of Canadians are affected by this tax. I think it's fair to say that your members are not ultrarich, but they are affected by this tax.

Is that correct?

[Anne Kothawala]

I mean, maybe not all of them.... Definitely, some of them would be.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

All right.

Because they own their business through a limited company.... I think they would be forced to own it through a limited company if, for example, they were buying the building and needed to finance it, because the lender would insist on a corporate structure. These members have their asset in a limited company, so they don't even get the $250,000 exemption this tax increase has included.

Is that correct?

[Anne Kothawala]

Again, we're going into something that I haven't worked very closely with my members on, so I'd be hesitant to.... This is a level of detail that I'm certainly not an expert on.

I'd be delighted to come back to the committee with more detail, but I didn't prepare to speak on this issue.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

If you would be willing to check with your members about this point—

[Anne Kothawala]

Sure, I'd be happy to.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

—and find out how many of them own their stores through a company.... You can check in and confirm with the finance officials that companies are not able to have that $250,000 exemption, so this tax is an increase that will affect your members.

I think I have only a couple of minutes left. I'd like to get the credit unions in here.

You mentioned, in your response to Ms. Bendayan's question, that open banking was something the government talked about in 2018. It's actually a Conservative private member's bill moving this into legislation right now. The coming into force is long delayed.

[Michael Hatch]

It depends on what you mean by delay. The process first started in 2018, so six years ago, but there have been multiple iterations of it since then. Again, there are a lot of different industry sectors at the table in that process.

Yes, we would have liked to see it move a bit more quickly, but there was some legislative activity, I guess, on it in this year's budget. We were happy to see that, and we hope to see that enacted as soon as possible.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

We reported back Mr. Williams' private member's bill on this. Hopefully, that will pass Parliament when it comes up for a vote.

We have about a minute left. Can you talk about the competition issues around open banking? For example, how do banking fees in Canada compare to those in other jurisdictions?

[Michael Hatch]

On your first question, as this rolls out and large banks and smaller financial institutions start to migrate to this new ecosystem of open banking, it will become easier and there will be less friction for a consumer to move from one financial institution to another. These are all good things from a consumer standpoint and for competition.

To reiterate a point I made earlier, for the credit union sector, it's going to be imperative in the years to come, as this rolls out, to make a streamlined process for credit unions to go federal. Right now, most of them are provincial and just can't compete outside of their provincial borders, and we need to fix that.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

We have, basically, a group of six institutions that have a near monopoly. We're glad that your sector exists to give them at least some competition, but what we're really talking about is six dominant players that your members need to be able to compete with fairly.

[Michael Hatch]

That's correct, yes.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Kelly. We are very generous with time here, MP Kelly, as you know.

I'm going to MP Baker now for the next five minutes.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Are you going to be generous with me as well?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm generous with everyone.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

It's good to see you all.

Thank you for being here, Ms. Yetman. It's good to see you back.

Mr. Hatch, I also see savings, as Mr. Sorbara mentioned, in Etobicoke. I'm proud of virtually anything positive that comes out of Etobicoke, and there are lots of positive things. We have a number of other credit unions that serve our community, and I'm glad that you're here advocating for them. I think they play an integral role in our financial services system and supporting Canadians in their financial and economic welfare. Thank you for that.

I'm going to direct my questions initially to Ms. Silas.

Thank you very much for being here.

You said something at the outset that was music to my ears. You spoke about national standards for long-term care. Some of my colleagues who have worked with me will know this. All of my colleagues are supportive, but some of them have worked with me on this.

Back in March 2020, five MPs in particular signed a letter asking the Prime Minister to bring forward national standards for long-term care, and I was proud to be one of those five MPs. Since then, the federal government has worked with experts to develop those standards. However, as you said, unless the provinces adopt those standards and unless those standards are enforced, we won't reap the benefits of them.

Can you speak to the importance of the provinces adopting those standards and why enforcement is important?

[Linda Silas]

For the provinces, it's bringing security to seniors, and it goes further than the buildings. We have more regulations for how to build buildings for long-term care than we have for the care provided inside them. When the federal government worked on the standard, it was done very well, very quickly. The 4.5 hours of care per resident per day is one of the highest standards in the world. We're very proud of that work, but it's staying on the shelves because it's not enforceable.

I met Minister MacKinnon just last week on it, and I told him, “Minister, we have to make it enforceable.”

Of course, for the provinces, the system is so divided because there's so much privatization in our long-term care sector that they more or less do what they want. For residents, it is security. We're hearing about too many residents falling through the cracks and not getting the proper care.

Our personal care worker workforce is really working too hard, too long and without proper pay, and then those who are sick don't even have proper nursing care.

It is a question of life and death, but it's also a question of respecting our seniors. We talk a lot about respect in this country, but as soon as you get old and ill, we forget about you. Our organization is saying we need to put a stop to that.