Finance Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2022

[Isabelle Jacques]

You're right that we didn't provide any written direction, but I know that the RCMP sent lists with certain information to financial institutions. Once again, though, that would be a question for the RCMP.

As for joint accounts, it's quite probable that the joint accounts of individuals involved in the illegal blockade on Parliament Hill were suspended.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

To your knowledge, did the government take into account the fact that freezing a joint account could victimize someone else, even if that person had not done anything wrong?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I understand what you're saying. I realize that it may seem a bit harsh, but the solution was simple. All the person had to do was stop participating in activities prohibited by the order. The suspension was applied quickly.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

The government did not provide any guidelines in relation to child support payments. The RCMP would have been the one to interpret the direction. Is that correct?

[Isabelle Jacques]

No, that's not what I meant.

Obviously, the RCMP had in its possession information about individuals and entities that were taking part in the illegal blockades, and it was that information that the RCMP shared with the banks.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

The government did not put any measures in place to accommodate child support payments before accounts were frozen. Before bringing forward the order, the government did not consider that it might prevent someone from making a child support payment to the mother of their child, for instance.

[Isabelle Jacques]

We did discuss that specific issue with the banks, and they were able to use their judgment to make sure child support payments weren't disrupted.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

That means the government did provide some non-verbal direction.

[Isabelle Jacques]

They weren't given an instruction, but it was certainly a discussion.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

All right.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

We are moving to the NDP, with MP Blaikie, for two and a half minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Madame Jacques, you've said a couple of times now—and you can correct me if I'm wrong—that when the accounts were frozen, the goal was to stop participation in the occupation in Ottawa or in blockades and that when the behaviour ceased, the accounts would be unfrozen. Financial institutions presumably received information from the RCMP and on that basis froze accounts.

What's the process for financial institutions to know whether the behaviour that's the subject of the order has ceased or not?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Likewise, the reverse is true.

Again, I should turn to my colleagues from the RCMP. I don't want to misspeak on their behalf.

Information was shared with financial institutions by the RCMP, and we were informed yesterday by financial institutions that they were unfreezing the accounts.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

At the moment, subject to the time it takes to implement that order, there should be no accounts frozen under the emergency order.

[Isabelle Jacques]

I don't know that there are none, unless the financial institution had information different from what was shared by the RCMP. I'm not able to tell you. But I would think that the vast majority of accounts are in the process of being unfrozen, and that's subject to any new information that the RCMP may have. To my knowledge, that's the status of the situation right now.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Are there any other law enforcement agencies that are contacting financial institutions directly with intelligence on whether people are behaving in ways prohibited by the order, whether that's CSIS or local law enforcement in Ottawa or other places where there were blockades?

[Isabelle Jacques]

It's certainly possible. Disclosure of information by a provincial or territorial institution is prescribed by section 6.

I do not know and I'm not able to tell you whether there was any communication between those provincial or other institutions and the financial institutions.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

If law enforcement agencies other than the RCMP were communicating with the financial institutions, is there no obligation to inform the federal government that this kind of reporting has occurred?

[Isabelle Jacques]

As you saw under section 5, the entities must disclose without delay to the commissioner of the RCMP, so the information would come back, but, again, I am not privy—

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Your expectation is that this information would be captured in the RCMP reporting.

[Isabelle Jacques]

Yes, that is my expectation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

That is the time, MP Blaikie.

We are moving to the Conservatives for five minutes.

MP Stewart, you have the floor.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What we're seeing here is a complete suspension of civil liberties, number one. The Prime Minister often talks about which things are acceptable to him and which things are unacceptable. Obviously every other protest that blocked off a road or a trade route was acceptable, because he didn't follow the money on any of those, whether they were climate crisis protests or any of those ones that he obviously supported. But he's willing to suspend civil liberties, freeze Canadians' lives and put their bank accounts on hold right now because single mothers, little old ladies and lots of people in Canada supported this, rightly or wrongly.

Now, I want to know something. I thought I heard that it was not retroactive. Are these bank seizures retroactive?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Could you be more precise in terms of what you mean by that?

No, the order is not retroactive. They could not use the fact that a person gave $50 five weeks ago to freeze the account.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

What was the date that somebody first donated to this cause?