Finance Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2022

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the government officials with us today and thank them for all their hard work during these extraordinary times.

My first questions are for the finance officials. Ms. Jacques will probably be able to answer them.

The order is short on details when it comes to the process and requirements for the freezing of funds. When I read the order, I didn't find much in the way of details.

Have you shared more detailed information with the financial institutions?

[Isabelle Jacques]

Absolutely. Since the moment the order came into force, we have been in regular contact with the financial institutions. In relation to some aspects, we have had daily communications to answer their questions and ensure that they have everything they need to enforce the order.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

You have had discussions with the financial institutions, but have you shared the requirements with them in writing so that they can properly carry out the freezing of funds?

[Isabelle Jacques]

No, we haven't sent them any written details or information. However, we have made ourselves available to answer any questions the various institutions may have around implementing the order.

That said, the RCMP has provided to them directly the information they need to implement the order.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I find what the government is doing here very troubling. The order gives the financial institutions immunity, but if the requirements they have to follow in order to freeze funds have been communicated to them only verbally, during discussions—not in writing—it opens the door to all sorts of possible interpretations. Obviously, I see that as a problem.

I'm going to try to come back to that a bit later. Now I want to talk about the vehicle insurance component.

Were insurance companies given any instructions in writing for the suspension of vehicle insurance policies?

[Isabelle Jacques]

No, they weren't provided with any written instructions.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

This is another thing the government is doing that I find problematic.

[Isabelle Jacques]

May I clarify something?

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Yes, please do.

[Isabelle Jacques]

The way the order is written makes it clear that the institutions are responsible for implementing the order. The entities are responsible for making sure they comply with the requirements of the order.

We made ourselves available and answered their questions, but they also consulted with their legal departments on a regular basis to ensure that they were in compliance with the requirements of the order.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Yes, I realize that. Thank you for clarifying. I still see a huge problem with this, since the order is vague and open to interpretation. Without clear and specific guidelines, things could go sideways.

For example, what direction did you give insurers to permit truckers to leave blockades without having their insurance policies suspended? Did you recommend that they not suspend insurance policies before truckers left blockades?

[Isabelle Jacques]

No, we did not make any recommendations. I should point out that I work for the Department of Finance. Our colleagues at the RCMP were the ones with information to share with the entities responsible for implementing the order. The Department of Finance was not involved in sharing that information.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

All right. I see.

[Isabelle Jacques]

I can't confirm whether insurance companies received any information, but they were responsible for checking whether policyholders were in contravention of the order.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

The implementation of this measure worries me. Say a trucker leaves the convoy and causes an accident on the way home when they no longer have any insurance coverage. At the end of the day, it would be the victim of the accident who would be penalized as a result of the order. Quebec has a no-fault insurance system, under which, victims are compensated by the Société de l'assurance automobile du Québec, or SAAQ. Ontario, however, doesn't have such a system, so the order could end up penalizing victims greatly.

That was just a comment. Sorry, it was a bit long. I'll get to my question now.

[Isabelle Jacques]

I'm listening.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

In Quebec, we have the SAAQ. We have universal public motor vehicle liability insurance.

Does the federal order apply to the SAAQ?

[Isabelle Jacques]

The SAAQ, itself, is not covered.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

However, it's an insurer.

[Isabelle Jacques]

Yes, but the insurers covered by the order are supposed to take the necessary measures if they know, for instance, that a vehicle is being used as part of a blockade or unlawful assembly. If the SAAQ had such information, it should have suspended truckers' insurance policies.

Now, did that happen? I don't know. Obviously, though, had it been necessary to suspend insurance policies, the information would have been communicated and the truckers would have been warned so that they could leave the area.

The RCMP issued quite a few warnings to truckers to let them know that it was time to leave.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Yes, I understand truckers were warned, but how could insurers know they were insuring a trucker who was part of the convoy? Did the RCMP send them requests to suspend the policies of certain individuals?

[Isabelle Jacques]

I can only assume that, if information was shared, it came from the RCMP, but I prefer to let the RCMP answer that question. The Department of Finance wasn't involved in that step.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

Now we're moving to the NDP and MP Blaikie for six minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

Following along that same line of questioning, whether it's for insurance companies or for financial institutions more generally, what are the sources of information they might have had? We know the RCMP is one source of information.

What would be other sources of information under the powers granted that they could act on to freeze accounts or suspend insurance?