Finance Committee on Dec. 9th, 2021

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

First of all, welcome to this committee and welcome to the House, Mr. MacDonald. It's great to have you here. I think colleagues would probably agree with me that this is one of the livelier and more consequential committees, so it's really good to see you here.

As I said earlier in my testimony, one of the principles on which our government based everything that we did in this crisis was the idea that a job is the most important thing for working Canadians, that a job is the basis of a person's and a family's economic well-being. Having a job is actually also really socially and psychologically important.

Probably the moment that got me the most worried when COVID hit was in the immediate aftermath of the lockdown when we saw that we had lost three million jobs. That was devastating to the lives of three million people and probably a lot more than three million people, because it also meant the lives of the families and friends of all of those people who lost their jobs. That was the deepest hit the Canadian economy had taken since the Great Depression, so we knew we had we had to act and we had to act quickly.

We acted with the CERB because we wanted to be sure that vulnerable people could pay their rent or pay their mortgage and could buy groceries. We also acted with the wage subsidy. I want to emphasize how important, in my view, that was, because it allowed people to stay connected to their jobs and it prevented economic scarring.

We see what that has meant in the numbers today. Canada's jobs recovery has been outpacing market expectations. We're at 106%. That is strongly outpacing what we're seeing in the U.S., which has had only a 83% recovery of jobs.

I don't want to give Canadians the impression that I think our work is finished or that I think there are no concerns left with omicron or that I am blind to the very real challenges of opening up the Canadian and global economies. These are real challenges, but for me the single most important economic number, which gives me a lot of comfort, is our very strong jobs recovery. That's down to Canadians. It is down to the small businesses that have hung in there and kept their workers on.

I am sure you have talked to a lot of small businesses in your constituency. I certainly have. Some people decided to take home less money for themselves so they could keep their workers on. There are so many people across the country who did that, who have shown remarkable resilience, as have the workers who kept on going into work even maybe when they had to take a pay cut during the worst of the crisis.

This is really important. The Canada recovery hiring benefit is going to put some further wind in the sails of that jobs recovery.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I have thirty seconds, so I will just make a statement.

I totally agree with you, Deputy Prime Minister. I come from Prince Edward Island, where 6.4% of our economy is through the tourism industry, involving 15,000 to 17,000 jobs. It's a seasonal industry. This bill is so important to our society in Prince Edward Island. I can't stress enough that I certainly hope everyone around this table ensures that this bill is passed.

I thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald.

We're moving now to the Bloc.

Monsieur Ste-Marie, you have two and a half minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, you confirmed to us that the government is currently working on a targeted program for self‑employed cultural workers, as Bill C‑2 doesn't include any measures to support them. Could you confirm that the program can be implemented within a time frame that will satisfy these people and that it will be sufficient to ensure an acceptable standard of living?

Thank you.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

I really want to thank you for the work that you and the Bloc are doing for workers in the cultural sector. I agree with you that it is an important sector and that it has been particularly affected by the COVID‑19 pandemic. I also agree that this sector is not only important economically, but also culturally, socially and I would even say politically. So we must support this sector.

We made a commitment during the election campaign, and I am very happy to say today that we have a program. We are consulting on how to provide this much‑needed help. We are talking to cultural organizations to ensure that the assistance will be appropriate.

I also want to say that Bill C‑2 is also important, because the cultural organizations will be able to benefit from the subsidies that are provided for in it. It isn't enough in the sense that Bill C‑2 will not address cultural workers, but many cultural organizations need it.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Can you confirm that the program for self‑employed workers in the cultural sector could be put in place within a time frame that they will find satisfactory?

Thank you.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

We are going to work very hard to ensure it is.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

That's time. Thank you.

We'll move now to the NDP.

Mr. Blaikie, you have two and a half minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

I think it's pretty clear in the legislation, on a go-forward basis, how the lockdown benefit works. I want to restrict our exchange to just the period between October 24 and now. Are there any regions in Canada that have requested to be considered under a lockdown order in terms of the legislation, or are there any that you would proactively recommend to cabinet be considered to have been under a lockdown order in that period?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I'm not aware of any that have requested it. If there are some and somehow the request didn't make it up to me, I'm happy to say to any MPs that if there are areas you represent that have requested it, send me an email. I think everyone here has my email. Most of the premiers text me regularly, so you know....

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Fair enough, so there have been no texts from the premiers yet saying that they have an area in their province or territory—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

No one has yet, but it's open to review, if people would like.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Sure.

In part 1 there's a pretty comprehensive list of the industries that your government considers to still be in pretty significant economic distress as a result of the pandemic. We know that there are a lot of self-employed folks who work in those industries, whether it's independent travel agents in the tourism industry or whether it's people in the arts and culture sector. Why is it that your government didn't consider making the Canada worker lockdown benefit accessible to self-employed workers in those sectors that are so well defined in part 1 of the act, notwithstanding whether there's a specific lockdown order in the place where they happen to live?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

If I'm understanding you correctly, Mr. Blaikie, you're asking whether, absent a lockdown, self-employed workers should have access to a benefit. Is that the idea?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Yes. I mean, we know that in those industries defined in part 1 of the bill, there is still considerable economic disruption, in the opinion of your government. Why not make the lockdown benefit accessible to people who are self-employed and who, your government is pretty clear, will continue to have trouble earning income in their sector that is in distress? Why not make the lockdown benefit available to them independent of whether there happens to be a lockdown?

We know, lockdown or not, their employment income is going to be affected by the pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm sorry, Minister, but that is the time.

We are now moving to the Conservatives and Mr. Chambers for five minutes.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. It's nice to see you and nice to have you here.

We heard testimony yesterday about 4.7 million CEWS applicants and 2.2 million recipients of CERB. Can you let us know how many of these applications have been checked for eligibility?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Welcome to the House, and welcome to the committee, Mr. Chambers.

If the question is about whether we are being careful that people who receive government benefits are eligible for those benefits and whether we are careful about ensuring—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I think the question is how many of them have been checked.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

—there is no fraud, I want to assure you that we are careful.

I also want to say that the scope and scale of these programs is unprecedented, and that is a reality as well.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you.

You mentioned a couple of times the extension of the Canada recovery hiring benefit. We have not been given any details about how effective that benefit has been. Can you let us know how many people have taken advantage of the Canada recovery benefit today?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The Canada recovery hiring benefit is a relatively new program. It started only during the summer. We think that it is a program worth continuing and indeed increasing, because of our focus on jobs, jobs, jobs. We understand that it's hard for businesses in these very uncertain times to bring on another person. That's a difficult, risky decision. With the Canada recovery hiring benefit, we're making that a little bit easier.

The other thing the Canada recovery hiring benefit is designed to address is hours worked. One of the things we saw during COVID was that hours worked declined, and there were some people who wanted to work full time who found themselves working only part time. I think in many circumstances this was because of good employers, employers who didn't want to fire someone but couldn't afford and couldn't justify keeping them on full time.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

This Canada recovery hiring program is going to help encourage employers to bring people back to full hours, which is what they need.