Finance Committee on Dec. 9th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number five of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to the House of Commons order of reference adopted on December 2, 2021, the committee is meeting on Bill C-2, an act to provide further support in response to COVID-19.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

Today's meeting is also taking place in webinar format. Webinars are for public committee meetings and are available only to members, their staff and witnesses. Members enter immediately as active participants. All functionalities for active participants remain the same. Staff will be non-active participants and can therefore only view the meeting in gallery view.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all participants in this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen are not permitted.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from the health authorities, as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy of October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person must maintain two-metre physical distancing, wear non-medical masks when circulating in the room—and it is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated—and maintain proper hand hygiene by using the provided hand sanitizer at the room entrance. As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank members in advance for their co-operation.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or alert the chair.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for mask use and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your microphone should be on mute. I remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

It's now my pleasure to welcome our Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Chrystia Freeland.

Minister, we know how busy you and your department are, and we appreciate your being here with us today for these proceedings. I know that you're joined today by your assistant, associate deputy minister Nicholas Leswick.

Welcome, Minister and Nicholas.

We also have some of your staff here virtually from the Department of Employment and Social Development and the Department of Finance. I won't go through the list of names, but they are available if information is needed from them.

With that, Minister, we now are going to hear from you in your opening statement. After your opening statement, we will move to questions from members for a two-hour period.

Minister, the floor is yours.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, all members of the committee and committee staff. I know how hard you work. It is great to be here.

I wouldn't call Nick “my assistant”, or anyone else's. He's a very senior Department of Finance official. In fact, he's the second most senior. Greg McLean will be interested to know he's also originally from Alberta, from outside Calgary, so we have a strong Alberta presence in the department. My chief of staff is from Edmonton. She went to the same high school that I did, but many years later.

Mr. Chair, congratulations on assuming the chair, and thank you for your invitation.

I'd like to say to all the members here that I imagine we may have some robust exchanges, but congratulations to everyone on being elected and thank you for your hard work.

Since the House has returned, the emergence of a new COVID variant has forced new travel restrictions in a number of countries, including Canada, and created renewed uncertainty in global markets. The emergence of the omicron variant is a reminder that the best economic policy remains finishing the fight against COVID. That fight isn't over yet, and that really underscores the need for us to continue to protect Canadians and Canadian businesses and, in fact, the need for this bill.

When the COVID‑19 crisis hit, our government rapidly rolled out a historic set of broad‑based programs so that we could save lives, ensure our economy could withstand public health restrictions, and have the backs of Canadian workers and Canadian businesses so they could get through the pandemic.

Our income, wage, and rent support programs have helped keep food on the table, protect millions of jobs, and keep hundreds of thousands of Canadian businesses going through the darkest days of the pandemic.

Having said that, our support measures were always designed to be temporary emergency support measures. As many members of this committee have noted, the emergency nature of this support meant that there have been bumps along the way.

Unfortunately, some seniors who received COVID supports have seen their GIS benefits affected. Our government—very much including me, personally—is very aware of this issue and is actively seeking a solution. Our most vulnerable seniors should not be penalized, particularly those who lost income due to the pandemic.

We know that many seniors rely on GIS payments to help make ends meet, and I am confident that the government will have more to say on this issue in the next few days. Today, with high vaccination rates, over a million jobs created, children back in school and businesses across the country reopening, the time has come to adapt the business and income support measures to these new and improved circumstances.

Across the country, businesses are reopening. As of last month, more than 106% of the jobs lost in Canada in the depths of the recession have been recovered. This is compared to just 83% of jobs recovered in the U.S.

Thanks, in part, to our government's support measures, we have avoided the sort of deep economic scarring that followed the 2008 recession and that would have done permanent damage to our economy. Just last Friday, Statistics Canada reported that strong job growth continued in November, with 154,000 new jobs created. This outpaced market expectations. These new jobs lowered the unemployment rate to 6%, the lowest since the pandemic began, and only 0.3% above pre-pandemic levels of February 2020.

However, some areas of the country and some sectors of the economy are slower to reopen and continue to need targeted support. That's why, in October, our government announced a pivot from the broad-based support that was appropriate at the height of lockdowns to more targeted support that will provide help where it is still needed, while also prudently and carefully managing government spending.

On November 24, I introduced legislation in Parliament to deliver this more targeted support and that's what we're going to discuss today.

Bill C‑2 allows us to move forward while keeping in mind that the recovery is still uneven and that public health measures that save lives continue to restrict certain economic activities.

Given the fears caused by the new Omicron variant, Bill C‑2 is more important than ever. That is why I am here today to ask you to act in the best interests of Canadians and Canadian businesses by helping them through the pandemic and these uncertain times.

Bill C‑2 will provide critical support for the economic recovery and protect workers in the hardest hit sectors, including tourism. As outlined in the list of eligible tourism and hospitality entities released with Bill C‑2, we have ensured that businesses in the arts and culture sectors, including those offering live performances and art exhibitions, as well as museums, will be eligible. In practical terms, this means that the bill includes significant measures to support the jobs of artists and cultural workers.

That being said, our government recognizes that the arts and culture sector remains disproportionately and negatively affected by the pandemic. That is why, during the election campaign, we made a commitment to provide targeted support to cultural workers and technicians, including the self‑employed. While we want to quickly deliver the support measures included in this bill, we are working hard to keep our promise to artists so that they can continue to shine here and around the world. We will be able to give you more details soon.

For artists in Quebec and across Canada, we must move quickly to pass Bill C‑2 while working together to introduce new measures that will directly support artists and the cultural sector. Among the measures included in Bill C‑2 is the Canada worker lockdown benefit, a new income support benefit that will take into account the decisions of the public health authority, which remain uncertain and unpredictable.

The Canada worker lockdown benefit will provide $300 a week to workers who are directly affected by a COVID‑related local lockdown and will be available to eligible workers retroactively from October 24, 2021, to May 7, 2022.

We're taking this step because we want to make sure that no one is left behind, including workers who are unable to do their jobs due to future public health restrictions, should they be required.

Bill C-2 is also designed with an understanding that some workers may require income support if they need to take time off because they're sick, under quarantine or have caregiving responsibilities. That's why the bill proposes to extend eligibility for both the Canada sickness benefit and the Canada caregiving benefit.

We want to make sure that businesses can continue to grow and recover and drive up Canada's labour force participation rates and our level of employment. That's why we're proposing to extend the Canada recovery hiring program until May 7 and increase the rate of support to 50%.

We also know that there are some businesses that have been most deeply affected by the pandemic and that continue to face significant pandemic‑related challenges. The new tourism and hospitality recovery program will deliver wage and rent subsidies to employers such as hotels, restaurants, travel agencies, and tour operators. The bill includes details of the types of businesses that would be eligible. The subsidy rate for this highly targeted group of tourism and hospitality businesses will start at 40% for applicants with a 40% loss of income and increase based on their loss of income, up to a maximum of 75%.

For businesses in all sectors, the hardest-hit business recovery program will provide support through wage and rent subsidies to employers who have experienced deep and enduring losses throughout the pandemic. The eligibility for these programs will be a two-key system. One key will consider whether the employer has faced a significant revenue loss over the course of the first 12 months of the pandemic. The second key is revenue loss in the current month.

The local lockdown program will be there to provide employers facing temporary new local lockdowns with a subsidy rate of up to 75% through the wage and rent subsidy programs. This is important because it will ensure that local authorities and public health officials can continue to make the right public health choices, knowing that support will be there for workers and businesses if needed.

While we are all hoping that lockdowns will not be necessary in the future, recent developments related to the omicron variant serve as a reminder that the fight against COVID is not yet over, and to underscore a key aspect of Bill C-2, it would enable the government to take immediate action to support workers and businesses directly affected by local lockdowns should the public health situation require it.

I will note that we will continue to have measures in place such that any publicly listed corporation that chooses to increase executive pay while receiving government support will have the wage subsidy support clawed back.

The broad-based set of business and income support measures, which we introduced at the height of the pandemic and which came to an end, as we committed, on October 23, had an estimated cost of $289 billion.

Mr. Chair, I can today report that the Department of Finance has estimated, on October 21, that the total cost of the measures in Bill C-2 would be $7.4 billion, and it would come from the consolidated revenue fund. The government will account for the potential economic impact of the omicron variant, including the increased possibility of the need to use the insurance policy, which is the lockdown support measures in Bill C-2, in our economic and fiscal update on Tuesday.

Fighting COVID-19 and the subsequent lockdowns we put in place to save lives required unprecedented government spending in Canada and around the world. Canadians supported that extraordinary spending because they understood that it was not only the compassionate thing to do, but the right thing to do economically.

With Bill C‑2, we will continue to have Canadians' backs while delivering support that is more targeted—and prudently manages public finances.

I hope all parliamentarians will vote to pass this legislation so that Canadians who need support can access it without undue delay.

Finally, Mr. Chair and fellow members of Parliament, I'd like to reiterate as clearly as I can that the single most important economic policy for Canada continues to be making sure that everyone who can get vaccinated does get vaccinated. We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 89% of Canadians 12 and older having received at least one dose of the vaccine. We have the second-lowest mortality rate in the G7. Children between five and 11 started getting vaccinated last month. Many of our parents and grandparents are now getting their booster shots, and the rest of us will start getting them soon too.

I have to say, speaking as a daughter, what a relief it is that our parents and grandparents are getting their boosters. I think that feeling is one common to many Canadians.

We can be proud of how we have come together to fight COVID‑19. Our battle is not quite finished yet but we are getting there. The measures in this legislation are an important part of what we need to do to get the job done.

On that note, I am pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you very much, Minister, for that opening statement and the information. I know the members thank you for coming before our committee, and I know they're very eager to ask you questions about Bill C-2 and our recovery supports for those affected by COVID-19.

Now we're going to move into our first round of questions. Each member will have six minutes. We're going to start with the Conservatives.

We have Ms. Bergen for six minutes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. It's good to have you at our committee.

Minister, I want to take you back to something you said in October 2020 in a speech you were giving to the Toronto Global Forum. At that point, you stated that deflation and subpar growth would be a greater risk to Canadians than the threats of inflation and spiralling debt. That was well after COVID had begun. The markets were rebounding. The housing market was heating up. Our own finance critic, Mr. Poilievre, warned back in May and many more times that inflation was going to be the threat, and it truly is the threat that Canadians are facing right now. We just heard today that Canada’s food price guide said that, again, food prices will be going up.

You are asking us today to look at Bill C-2. You are asking us to approve more money that's going to be inserted into the economy. We're not sure where that's coming from—if you're going to be borrowing or if you're going to be cutting other programs—but we do know that Canadians are dealing with an inflation crisis, one that up until even about a week and a half ago you were not admitting was even happening.

My question is with regard to your comments back in October of 2020. Were you ill-informed? Did you believe that deflation was going to be the problem? Were you trying to manipulate—maybe not viciously, but were you trying to manipulate? I'm trying to get to the bottom of what you were thinking when you said deflation was going to be a problem in October 2020, when we saw, between March 2020 and October 2020, the signals in the economy that things were already roaring and heating up. What were you thinking? Were you ill-informed? Why would you say that?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question. Actually, I have before me the speech that I gave then, which I reviewed this morning. Let me say that the challenges of secular stagnation, as it has been called by people like Larry Summers and Olivier Blanchard, were significant challenges to western industrialized economies prior to the COVID recession and continue to be a serious medium-term risk.

What the secular stagnation we experienced showed us, and the longer-term challenge there, is that western industrialized economies face a challenge in the medium term of subpar growth with an aging demographic. That challenge of subpar growth, of deflation, which probably prior to COVID we saw most notably in Japan, is indeed something that policy-makers who think about the medium and long term, as we certainly do at the Department of Finance, need to be concerned about. I think it's absolutely appropriate to be thinking about those medium-term structural challenges of subpar growth, of deflation. That actually is one of the reasons that I think we as a country really need to focus on how we can bring in structural policies that will structurally improve Canada's long-term growth trajectory.

I would like to return to some recent comments made by an economist I respect very much and I know Prime Minister Harper respected very much, and that is Stephen Poloz. When he was interviewed a couple of weeks ago, he said, and I'm quoting him now, that “what the stimulus did was...keep the economy from going into a deep hole in which we would have experienced persistent deflation”. On the issue of deflation, I think it's important to divide it into two parts. There's the medium-term pre-COVID trend. I think it's actually a consensus of mainstream economists that there was a long-term challenge of secular stagnation.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Then there's the immediate extreme challenge posed by the COVID recession—

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Yes. Thank you.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

—which, absent government action, would indeed have posed a theat of deflation, as Governor Poloz pointed out. Fortunately, we acted decisively, averting that challenge.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you. I have six minutes, so I'm going to try to match my question with the timing of your answer. Thank you for that.

I have two things on that, quickly.

Mr. Poloz is the same man who said, in May 2021, “I can say flippantly not to worry about inflation”. I don't think we want to be going to his quotes.

Here's what I'm going to tell you, Minister. Your discussion around deflation is very interesting, and certainly I think shutting down our Canadian oil and gas sector sure doesn't help long-term growth in Canada, but right now what Canadians are worried about is the massive increase in everything. We have a two-decade high inflation increase.

About a week and a half ago, we couldn't even get your government to admit that inflation was a problem. Then you did admit it was a problem, but you said, “Well, it's not Canada's problem. It's happening globally.” You basically have no solution for it. When you're coming to our committee and defending your statement by saying that deflation is going to be the problem, not inflation, you're not admitting that you were wrong.

It's having a major effect on Canadians. You offer no solutions. You're saying, “Well, it's not really our problem. We're in government, but we're not going to do anything and maybe pump $7.2 billion or more into this problem.” That does not give comfort to Canadians who are dealing with high gas prices, high food costs and higher housing prices. These are real problems that everyday parents and seniors are dealing with. There's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's your time, Ms. Bergen.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

There's a confidence problem with you, Minister.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're now moving to the Liberals for six minutes.

Thank you.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

A warm welcome to you, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, and through the chair, to your officials, I thank them for their extraordinary work throughout this pandemic to support Canadians during this unprecedented time.

The omicron variant is a stark reminder that our battle with COVID is not over. You've talked about that. We also know that the best economic policy for Canadians is a strong health policy. Right now what that means is that it's important for as many Canadians as possible to be vaccinated. Can you elaborate on where you feel the Canadian economy is at?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you very much, Ms. Dzerowicz, for your question and your hard work. It's nice to have here today a member of Parliament whose riding borders my own.

I think that is a really important question. I'm going to start by saying something that perhaps politicians and indeed even economists don't say often enough, which is that we are still today—we have been since COVID hit—travelling in uncharted waters. This is an unprecedented crisis, and I do think it's important for everyone to acknowledge the high degree of uncertainty that we continue to face.

What I think that requires of us as policy-makers, as people who have the privilege and the responsibility of steering the Canadian ship through these uncharted waters, is that we have to have a lot of humility. We have to acknowledge that there is great uncertainty about economic forecasts and great uncertainty about what's going to happen with the virus. Acknowledging that actually is a strength.

What we need to do, having acknowledged that, is to really have tremendous agility, have a lot of our tools in our tool box and be able to respond quickly as the circumstances change. The emergence of the omicron variant is an example, so I want to start with that.

Having said that, I think it is also really important for us as Canadians to set the record straight and to really take some quiet Canadian pride in the reality that we have done a really good job in handling this, the worst crisis since the Second World War and the deepest economic blow to the country since the Great Depression. The Canadian economy is recovering strongly. That is due to the hard work of all Canadians, and it is due to the work that we've done in the House of Commons.

Let me give you some numbers to back that up. Our GDP in the third quarter grew by a robust 5.4%. That beat market expectations. It was stronger than in the U.S., the U.K., Japan and Australia. Our jobs recovery has been very, very strong, with 154,000 jobs in November and 106% of jobs compared to pre-COVID. I really want to emphasize that, for our government, focusing on the jobs recovery has been at the core of everything we've done, because we understand that for every Canadian, or the vast majority of Canadians, the way to make life affordable, the way to have a good life, is to have a job. It starts there. I am really pleased to share with this committee and with all Canadians how strong our jobs recovery has been.

Canadian households have weathered the storm remarkably well. Savings in the third quarter were 11% and that compares to an average of 3.4% between 2010 and 2019. Deposits are at $105 billion—4.3% of GDP—and that is above pre-pandemic levels. Canadian households have been wise and prudent, and they have handled this crisis very, very well. Our exports surged to $56.1 billion in October, the highest level ever.

Yes, there are challenges ahead. Yes, there is a great deal of uncertainty and unpredictability. We need to be prudent and keep the insurance policy of lockdown support and keep this targeted support for the hardest-hit sectors, but I also think that Canadians should take some quiet Canadian pride in how well we have handled this historic challenge.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much.

Maybe, in the last 30 seconds—because you almost ended on this when you talked about the pivot from broad-based to more targeted, but you also talked about how we have to prudently and carefully manage government spending—do you want to talk about why that is so important for us to do at this moment?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question.

The short answer is that Canada has a track record of prudent management of the national finances. That was reaffirmed this fall by the AAA rating from Moody's and S&P. That is the basis of strong federal fiscal policy and of a strong economy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Dzerowicz.

Now we're moving to the Bloc and Monsieur Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you for being here and for your opening remarks. I also appreciate your willingness to answer our questions.

The Bloc Québécois believes that it is important to follow up on the support measures for the sectors, for the workers and for the businesses that are still experiencing difficulties because of the pandemic. Bill C‑2 will address that, which is important to us.

As we have said time and time again, we could have started work on Bill C‑2 earlier if the House had been called back sooner after the election, instead of waiting two months. Nevertheless, we supported the principle of the bill. We are here to study it, and we are very pleased to do so.

As you know, the leader of the Bloc Québécois, my colleague Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné and I sent you a letter expressing our concerns about Bill C‑2. You addressed the issues in your remarks, and I thank you for that effort. I appreciate that very much. I would like us to go back to it together, to determine your position and the government's position on it.

As you mentioned, our biggest concern is for self‑employed cultural workers. We are very pleased to see that Bill C‑2 targets the cultural sector with more generous measures. This is what we have been asking for.

We are very disappointed that the bill does not provide income support for self‑employed workers in the cultural sector. In Quebec, a few years ago, these people, particularly artisans in the sector, were asked to become self‑employed, freelance workers. At the outset, we wondered why they were not offered the Canadian recovery benefit (CRB). We were told that the department and the federal government would not be able to properly target people working in those sectors. What are you offering those people?

We don't want them to find a job in another sector, to retrain. In recent decades, in Quebec, we have managed to consolidate the cultural sector, and we want to maintain the expertise. That is why I am asking you this question.

Thank you, Madam Minister.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question and for your co‑operation. Let me also thank you for our work together over the last few years and our work together on Bill C‑2.

I am very pleased that you noticed the effort I made at the beginning of my remarks to respond to your letter. That was intentional. We read your letter and discussed those themes. You raised the issue of the cultural sector. I want to start by saying that our government is also concerned about the cultural sector.

It is an important economic sector, both socially and in terms of the national identity of Quebec and Canada. As we were negotiating the new NAFTA, we stressed this aspect and we defended the cultural sector because our government understands the importance of the sector, especially, but not only, in Quebec. We agree on that. We also agree that the cultural sector is particularly affected by the COVID‑19 pandemic. It is a sector that cannot completely reopen. So we agree on what needs to be done.

That being said, we must determine how it needs to be done. In October, we made a decision, and today I am completely convinced that it was the right one. We decided to change the way we do things and convert general support programs for all to targeted programs. We made that decision because the situation had changed, because our fairly successful fight against the virus allowed us to change our approach. We also did so because it is important for us, as it is for everyone around the table, to take a fiscally prudent approach. So we have moved from a broad approach to a targeted approach.

In order to have a targeted approach, we are going to do three things. First, the programs in Bill C‑2 will help many businesses in the cultural sector. We need to see that. Second, Mr. Ste‑Marie, I agree with you on the importance of the issue of self‑employed cultural workers. Finally, we believe that a targeted program must be created for those workers because they are in a special situation.

During the election campaign, we made a commitment to help those workers. We are working out the details of the program that will be rolled out. I am absolutely ready today to reiterate publicly that we are doing that. We will be rolling out that program.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Madam Minister and Mr. Ste‑Marie.

That's your time.

We're moving now to the NDP and Mr. Blaikie for six minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

It's good to see you at committee, Deputy Prime Minister.

As you know, I only have six minutes and I am hoping to get in more than one question, so if the answers are long, I may cut in a little bit.

Working middle-class Canadian families are certainly feeling the pinch at the grocery store, as are the financially vulnerable, like people living with disabilities and seniors on fixed incomes. It's not because Canadians are suddenly buying way more food than they did before. In other words, it's not too much money chasing too many goods in the grocery sector. There are other factors at play.

One of the roles the government can play is to support people financially in what continues to be a difficult time because of the pandemic. In fact, a lot of vulnerable people—whether they're low-income families on the CCB, recipients of the Canada worker benefit or GIS recipients—are seeing their benefits being clawed back. I know you talked a little bit about the GIS issue in your opening remarks.

Bill C-2 doesn't actually include any provisions that would prevent the clawback that we're seeing. It's one thing to have to address it retroactively for the CERB and for the CRB. The Canada worker lockdown benefit is a forward-looking benefit, but there's nothing in there that would prevent the kind of clawback that we're seeing.

Why did your government choose not to include anything that would prevent a similar clawback in this legislation?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

First of all, thank you very much for the question.

Just to reiterate, on the GIS, because that's a point you have raised in the past and that the Bloc has also raised—the GIS and the CRB clawbacks—we recognize that this is a challenge and we recognize that we need to address it. It is pretty technically complicated, but we will address that challenge.

I also want to point out that I accept your core contention that there is an affordability challenge, especially for the most vulnerable Canadians. That is certainly true, and it's something that we're thoughtful about. It's one reason that it is a good thing that some of the benefits that go to the most vulnerable Canadians—the GIS, the CCB, the GST tax credit—are inflation linked. I think one piece of assurance that we can collectively offer to the most vulnerable Canadians is that the benefits they depend on are actually going to be linked to the costs they face in their lives.

I want to say one last thing because of your union background, if I may. I do really think the single most important thing for working people is to be able to work. That's why, if you had asked me at the beginning of the pandemic, what did I worry about the most, I would have told you it was the three million jobs lost. If you asked me today what the core thing is that I'm most worried about.... Actually, I would say the core thing is that we can't let COVID get a hold of us again. It's just too painful. It costs too much money and too many people die, but the second thing I'm the most worried about is getting jobs back.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm going to take this moment to jump in.