Finance Committee on Dec. 9th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Dzerowicz.

Members, we are coming close to the end of our time. We're going to do a final kind of truncated round. Each party is going to have two minutes.

We're going to start with the Conservatives and Mr. Chambers for two minutes.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have two questions for Mr. Saretsky. Hopefully, they're fairly quick.

Do you think that Canadians are addicted to debt?

[Stephen Saretsky]

Yes. I think it's so far gone now, unfortunately.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I'll yield the rest of my time on the floor to Ms. Kobluk to finish with a more fulsome explanation of the exchange she just had with Ms. Dzerowicz.

[Devorah Kobluk]

I'm sorry. Can you maybe direct me specifically to what you want to hear?

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

We were talking about low-income seniors and those who are most vulnerable. I wanted to make sure you have an opportunity to advocate on their behalf.

[Devorah Kobluk]

Child care is very important—there's no doubt about it—but we are here because we want a fix for the GIS clawback. ISAC supports all wraparound services, including housing, child care, mental health and addiction services. We advocate for that frequently. We also advocate for workers' rights. Racialized workers have been very hard-hit during this pandemic.

To respond to some of the comments by your colleague, we're happy it's on the radar, but we won't feel that our concerns are allayed until we actually see a proposal on the table that shows that the minister will exempt CERB for the 2020 fiscal year, so that people will not lose their GIS for the duration of the year. This is going to continue with CRB. Let's fix it now, because you guys will be here in committee next year. If I'm lucky enough to come back and speak, I will be saying similar things, and this will be more urgent. With every day the money is not there, the situation is harder for them.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you for coming this afternoon.

[Devorah Kobluk]

Thank you for having me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Chambers.

We are moving to the Liberals for two minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to direct my question to Ms. Grynol again. One thing we've spoken a lot about is the importance of the measures in Bill C-2 for your sector. You've articulated that quite clearly. One conversation that has come up in the committee on a number of occasions is the suggestion by some that the programs here are helping businesses, but they're not helping people, like workers.

Can you speak to the impact these measures would have on Canadian workers?

Quickly, to my mind, the reason for these measures is to help businesses prevent all the negative outcomes that you've spoken about, namely the bankruptcies, the cutbacks and everything else you've spoken about. By keeping businesses functioning and operational, it allows them to then pay workers. By subsidizing wages, we allow them to pay workers.

Can you speak to what the impact would be of the measures in Bill C-2, in your view, on Canadian workers?

[Susie Grynol]

If there are no businesses, there are no jobs. They go hand in hand. This bill not only keeps businesses intact, but it provides for a subsidy for employment, which will allow us to maintain as many of our workers as possible over this winter season, so that they are with us in our time for recovery. They are the lifeblood of this industry. They are the most important asset we have.

Without this support, not only will we not have the businesses, we will not have the jobs. With this support, we can maintain as many of them as humanly possible.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Baker.

Now we're moving over to the Bloc and Madame Sinclair-Desgagné.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have another question for you, Ms. Prégent.

Were the Union des artistes and the Fondation des artistes consulted when Bill C‑2 was being drafted?

[Sophie Prégent]

Yes, we were consulted on several occasions, before and after the election.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Do you feel that the concerns you raised were considered?

[Sophie Prégent]

Yes, I believe that the government is sensitive to our concerns. I very much want to keep that connection, because it's important for us. It's good news that we have an open channel of communication and it must stay that way.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Great. I understand completely.

Basically, the CRB ended on October 23. The government called an election and reconvened Parliament two months afterwards. Bill C‑2 was drafted and your organization was consulted during the process. However, as you mentioned earlier, a number of categories of artists have been excluded from the bill, especially self-employed cultural workers. Let me give you an example. In my constituency, Terrebonne, the Théâtre du Vieux‑Terrebonne used to play to full houses, but it's now operating at one third of its capacity.

We can see that Bill C‑2 has nothing for culture, whereas, as you so rightly said, we needed a program yesterday. We really want to hear about how badly we need a program, how urgent it is, and that, right now, the current program is not adequate. We need a specific timeline.

[Sophie Prégent]

Exactly.

What we need now are answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That is the end of your time.

Thank you.

We are moving to the NDP.

Mr. Blaikie, these will be the last questions.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

I'll start by correcting what I would call a mischaracterization by Mr. Baker—however unintentional, I'm sure—of some of what I've had to say. It's not that there's no support for any workers at all; it's that there's no support for self-employed workers.

Ms. Grynol, it may well be that in the Hotel Association, people who run hotels normally do have some employees. However, surely, whether they're travel agents or various tourism agents, you do work with people who are self-employed in your industry, as part of the larger industry.

To what extent do you think that those folks who work for themselves should also be able to receive, given the state that the industry is in, some kind of financial help? That's not going to come through a wage subsidy program, so it stands to reason that there has to be another mechanism. Do you have some thoughts on that for the committee?

[Susie Grynol]

There's an opportunity for improvement in that respect. There are independent contractors within the sector, for sure. They have not been immune to the deep devastation. It doesn't apply directly to the Hotel Association, which I represent. I'm the coalition chair of the hardest-hit businesses. We do have businesses in there that have independent contractors. They are concerned about that piece.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have 15 seconds, so we're going to wrap up now.

I just want to say, on behalf of all the members of the Standing Committee on Finance, thank you to the witnesses. Thank you for your testimony, for your answers to the questions and for informing this committee on this important piece of legislation, Bill C-2. We thank you very much for all of that.

At this time, members, we are going to adjourn.