Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2022

[Beth Potter]

Certainly seasonal workers have always been a challenge for our industry. We do know that a lot of businesses will try to keep their high-skilled and long-term staff on the payroll year-round, but what we are seeing right now is that, whether it's seasonal or full-time employment, we are really challenged to attract and retain workers because of the reputational damage that we incurred during the pandemic. We were seen as an industry that wasn't stable to work in, so people took their skills and went elsewhere.

We have a lot of work to do ahead of us in really changing the narrative around our industry being a place to invest in for your career, whether that's on a seasonal basis, a part-time basis, a full-time basis or long term.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Potter and Mr. Ste-Marie.

Now we go to the NDP and MP Boulerice for two and a half minutes, please.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will use Mr. Ste-Marie's technique with Mr. Breton. I am going to ask two questions at once and let you use the remaining two minutes as best you can.

Mr. Breton, can you tell us about the impacts of charging stations for trucks and heavy vehicles on reducing greenhouse gas emissions and ending our dependence on oil?

My second question is about the recommendations. You spoke about the government setting an example. I am curious to know what we could do as the federal government.

[Daniel Breton]

Before I answer, I just want to give a bit of context. I did a quick bit of math on the number of tourists who visit Canada by car and the amount of GHG that this represents. Roughly three quarters of GHG emissions caused by the tourism industry come from transport. In 2019, this amounted to about half a billion kilograms of CO2. This means that supporting the electrification of transport will make tourism a greener industry. It is important to mention.

I drove here in an electric car, so I emitted almost no greenhouse gas, which speaks to what you mentioned before.

Let us turn to the government setting an example. When I was part of the government in Quebec, it was said that government bodies should lead by example, whether it be members of Parliament, public servants or government buildings. For instance, the environment minister uses an electric vehicle. Ten years ago, I used a hybrid car, because we did not quite have fully electric cars yet.

We want to lead by example, and that includes the charging infrastructure. Here in Ottawa, for instance, we see a lack of charging stations for you as MPs, for ordinary citizens and for public servants. Generally speaking, the infrastructure is insufficient.

I remember a directive from a few years ago forbidding people from plugging their electric cars in the 120-volt power outlets around the House of Commons, while allowing conventional gas-powered cars equipped with block heaters to use them. Inconsistencies like that show that we have a way to go in terms of the state setting the example.

The heavy vehicle infrastructure sector will be critical. Many employers in that sector are based in Quebec and Canada, like Lion Électrique, New Flyer and Nova Bus. More and more Canada- and Quebec-based businesses are developing a very important sector.

Let me give an example about heavy vehicles and infrastructure. Three months ago, I was in Norway. Much to my surprise, I discovered that Norway had 825 ferry routes, while Canada has 180. Also, 47% of ferries in Norway are already electric. Of course, the infrastructure there has been built accordingly. I think that we have fewer than a dozen electric ferries in Canada. We are way behind.

An entire shipbuilding industry could be developed around that. I think it would be an amazing opportunity to help shipyards around the country. We cannot pretend that we are not there yet from a technological standpoint. The largest ferry in the world is in Norway. It carries 600 people and 200 cars across 10 kilometres every single day. We are definitely there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Breton and Mr. Boulerice.

We are now going to hear from the Conservatives and MP Chambers, the member with the magical socks.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not wearing mine today but I did wear them the other day, so at least once a week.

My colleague from P.E.I. was showing me some great tourism destinations this summer, which I thanked him very much for, but obviously, recently those destinations are under some significant pressure, and in some cases have disappeared. Hopefully, we can get those back up and running as quickly as possible for those local communities.

I'm going to spend my time a bit differently today. I'm going to give each witness an opportunity to think about a question. I'm going to come back to them after.

Do you have a suggestion for government, for the budget, that doesn't cost any money? You can think about that for a couple of minutes while I talk to Mr. Darby for a few minutes. Then we'll come back to that and give everyone a chance to respond with one idea they have that doesn't cost the government any money. It could be regulatory change, something that you could help us provide to the Minister of Finance that doesn't strain the financial resources more than they are right now.

Mr. Darby, from Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, I'd like a couple of minutes with you, please.

I'm curious about your take on the competitiveness of the Canadian manufacturing sector vis-à-vis the rest of the world. There's been a lot going on. The U.S. is obviously making some significant investments. There's a lot of talk about onshoring. How do you think our sector is positioned? Are there opportunities to strengthen that?

[Dennis Darby]

Through the chair, I'd say right now it's tentative. I think Canada has recovered but at a slower pace than the U.S. We need an industrial strategy clear enough to decide how we're going to compete with the U.S.

The easy answer to the question is, our productivity is lower than most of our trading partners. Our industrial output has been slower to recover. We are restrained by the capacity and by the relatively higher cost to do business here, but there is an opportunity.

The whole Inflation Reduction Act in the U.S. gives Canada an opportunity to be in the tent, to be part of that green transition that my colleagues are talking about, to compete for those jobs, for those onshoring, or nearshoring or friendshoring. I think it is going to require the governments to act at both provincial and federal levels to say that we're team Canada and we want to attract that investment. But unless we put our money where our mouth is, I don't think we're going to get our fair share of investment.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you.

Quickly, before I go back to the panel, do you support or would you support a carbon tariff placed on goods manufactured outside of Canada in jurisdictions that have much weaker environmental laws or no carbon regulations?

[Dennis Darby]

That is a huge question. I will tell you that we would be supportive of such things but there are other steps that have to happen first before you put such a thing in place. I think that would be incredibly important to help protect Canadian manufacturers so they're not at an economic disadvantage.

Countries that dump products that are made under poor conditions and low environmental standards should be penalized and we should have an opportunity. It's a long conversation. I relish the opportunity to talk to you about it in much more detail than I have in my few seconds today.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'll ask Mr. Freedman.

There's a minute and 20. I'll ask the chair's indulgence. I'll give time up in a future round, Mr. Chair, if we can get through everybody very quickly. Thank you.

[Alex Freedman]

As it stands, community radio stations receive money directly from commercial broadcasters, not from government. What we propose in the $25-million solution is not that this come from taxpayers but that through Bill C-11, as Internet broadcasters that profit off Canadians are asked to pay into the system, that money should go to support community broadcasters. This should not be on the backs of taxpayers. There is a system that is soon to be in place, potentially.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Breton.

[Daniel Breton]

The obvious answer for us is the federal ZEV mandate that was announced by the environment minister a few months ago. Right now most people who want to go to electric cars cannot find any. It takes between six months and two years to get their hands on one.

I was looking at some data for Ontario, because you are an Ontario MP. Right now, because of the price of vehicles, gas vehicles, the price of gas, it ends up being less expensive to purchase and own an electric vehicle for many models nowadays.

When you're thinking about Ontario, I was looking at some data from 2021, and for Ontario drivers, Ontario imports approximately 12,750,000 barrels a month for oil for gas and diesel. It costs Ontario taxpayers about $900 million a month to import to Ontario oil for gas and diesel. If we transfer to electric vehicles, what that will do is keep money in the province of Ontario and create sustainable jobs in assembly, utilities, construction and everything.

That's why we need regulations to get those cars into Canada. Right now we're getting the leftovers because we don't have regulations. The U.S. has them—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Breton.

[Daniel Breton]

—and Europe has them and China has them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We do want to indulge MP Chambers, but you have to be very quick, witnesses, with your one idea.

[Beth Potter]

I'm happy to take the next one.

The unique thing about the tourism industry is that the policy and legislation that affects the industry is actually owned by about 24 different ministries and departments. Something that doesn't cost government is actually the establishment of a cabinet committee or other tool that will hold those ministries accountable for implementing changes to policy and legislation that will benefit the industry.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Harvey.

[Pascal Harvey]

One zero-cost measure for the government and the Minister of Finance would be to allow the money that was invested in the Regional Relief and Recovery Fund and that is supposed to be repaid into our financial tool, Capital Réseau, to be cleared quickly, before 2026.

This money is tagged “federal” until after 2025. If the minister and her Cabinet colleagues would allow that money, the repayment of businesses' money into Capital Réseau, to be cleared quickly so that we could use it to create special funds, that would be great.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Do we have everybody, Adam?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

That's way past time, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes, I know we're way past time. We'll just hear one more, and then we will move on.

Mr. Staples.

[Steven Staples]

I have one suggestion. Enforce the Canada Health Act. We need to give greater priority to the Health Canada strategic policy branch, which is responsible for enforcing, administering and monitoring the performance and adherence to the five principles of the Canada Health Act, and making sure the provinces use that money properly. That would be my only point.