Evidence of meeting #21 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was measure.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

François-Philippe Champagne  Minister of Finance and National Revenue

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

You yourself said in 2023 that you would stabilize prices, that you would lower prices, but every single price that I have named for you today on every single item has gone up and not down.

You're blaming outside factors. Right now, in Canada, our food inflation is twice that of the Americans.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

I'm not blaming anything. I'm just telling you the facts. When you have people watching at home, they understand—

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

Well, it's convenient that you keep yourself and all of government policy, regulation and food packaging taxes outside of your facts. You're not allowed to have your own facts.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

That's why I want to answer you. That's why I'm saying that Canadians understand food inflation as a global issue, but what they care more about is that we're taking structural measures to—

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

If it's a global—

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Madam Chair, do you want me to answer? I'm happy to listen to the questions, but if Canadians want to have answers—

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

You have to answer the questions.

Why is Canada the worst, then?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Well, I would challenge you on that, but that's not really what Canadians would focus on—

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Lantsman.

That concludes the time for this round.

We will now continue with Monsieur Leitão for six minutes.

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here.

Just for the record, Madam Chair, right now, Canada's real food inflation is not the worst in the G7 and is not double that of the U.S. if you discount base effects. The numbers for December are heavily affected by base effects. If you discount them, food inflation in Canada right now is in the 3% to 4% range, not 6%. We have to adjust it for the base effects.

Minister, we created a support program for Canadians to partially offset the cumulative increase in food prices. Can you tell us how the program that was just announced, which we are debating today with the study of Bill C‑19, is different from the one that was put in place a year ago regarding the changes to the GST?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Thank you. That is a great question.

Thank you for setting the record straight. I think Canadians know how to sort things out, and I think your intervention helps to sort things out.

What is important is that there is a one-time support, but there is also structural assistance. For the one-time support, we are talking about overall benefits, for 2026‑2027, of $950 for a single person and $1,890 for a couple with two children.

To answer my Conservative Party colleagues who voted in favour of this motion, I would point out that $500 million from the strategic response fund will help Canadian companies increase production in Canada, because we want to talk about food security.

We also talked about immediate expensing for greenhouses. As I said, what we need to do is produce more at home so that we are less dependent and more resilient.

We are also talking about an additional fund for food banks to alleviate immediate pressures.

We have a national food security strategy to make food more affordable. My colleagues from Quebec will understand that. I consulted the president of the Union des producteurs agricoles. That is what I am saying to my Conservative colleagues: It is not just a one-off. Structural measures have been asked of us for slaughterhouses, the supply chain and food supply chains, which are quite long. These are measures to support the work that is being done by our farmers.

We also talked about standardizing the labelling of the unit price. You know that this is one of the measures we have in Quebec, but you will be surprised to learn that it does not exist across the country. So we want to work with the provinces to ensure that consumers are able to better compare prices when they go to the grocery store.

So, yes, there are ad hoc measures. I often say, and it was said in English, that it is like a one-time measure that will help people, with a bonus this year.

This is also a measure that will make it possible to bridge the gap for the transition. People at home understand that we have a plan and a vision to grow the Canadian economy by 2030, but people are telling us that, in the meantime, they need a helping hand. We know that, for Canadian families, the two biggest expenses are housing and groceries. That is why we said we had to take action to help people. We have done it before on housing. What we are doing in terms of food will help people at a critical time for many families.

I know that some of my colleagues may take the liberty of expressing some criticism, but I can tell you that these amounts will help many Canadian families. I am sure you have read the report published by Food Banks Canada. The report mentions that the funding we are willing to provide to help people will improve things for Canadian families.

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Thank you for talking about Food Banks Canada, Minister, because that is indeed the next topic I wanted to address.

As you announced, this measure was very well received by Food Banks Canada. In fact, I have the impression that it is something that this organization has been asking for over some time, since it is believed that the best way to combat the effects of food inflation was to make a payment directly to the people most affected by it. I would like you to confirm my impression.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

As you know, the GST credit makes our tax system fairer. As you know, you are a great economist, Mr. Leitão. You were Minister of Finance in Quebec and you had a career in finance. People know your skills and your experience in the field. I think, as you said, it makes it possible to adjust the credit. That is the old GST credit, and it makes our tax system fairer.

This is a measure that has been applauded, obviously, by Food Banks Canada. Having spoken to various stakeholders in the field, I think that people understand what I am trying to tell our Conservative friends: There is a one-time increase, but there are also structural measures. Structural measures are what will help us in the long term to be more resilient in terms of food.

As I said, when you are in a northern country like Canada, which imports 30% of its fruits and vegetables, but where the rate is 80% to 90% in the winter, the answer to my colleagues is simple. Obviously, there is the exchange rate, but there is also the climate, the supply chains and the tariff measures imposed. All of that is documented. This is why food inflation is not unique to Canada.

What matters to people is that we take action now to help them. It will bridge the gap until economic growth starts benefiting Canadian households.

Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Thank you, Minister.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Thank you, Mr. Leitão.

Thank you, Minister.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Garon for six minutes.

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for your availability, Minister. We are going to see each other a lot this week.

In 2022, the Bloc Québécois proposed a similar measure. We were in an inflation crisis. We asked for the GST credit to be increased. Our request did not include a one-time cheque, but we felt that, in a period of inflation, especially at a time where we were exceeding the target, it was a good idea. It took you a long time, but congratulations, in the end, you finally did it.

That said, there are two components to your measure. The first component is a permanent measure: The government is increasing the cheque by 25%. The second component is a one-time cheque.

Minister, you know me, I am not a cynical person, but your one-time cheques are starting to be quite familiar to us. There was a $500 cheque for seniors on the eve of the 2021 election. There was a cheque for the carbon tax in the 2025 election.

Will your signs be ready on the day the cheque is paid?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

You say you are not cynical, but now I am doing my best not to have a big smile on my face.

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

I am not putting words in your mouth, Minister. I will let you answer the question.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Okay.

First, I will explain exactly why we did that and what calculation we made.

If you look at what we call the excess food inflation that we have seen since COVID‑19, you see that it amounts to about $782. That is why we said we were going to make a one-time increase. That enables families to get that amount; it even exceeds that amount. It also helps structurally over the longer term. As I was saying, there is the idea of a one-time increase, but there is also the bridge until 2030. The amount you see is really the adjustment we calculated with—

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

If I understand correctly, since you feel that there is a kind of temporary peak in inflation and that people are experiencing it very strongly, you write a one-time cheque.

Does that mean that, in a year from now, if you fail to reduce food inflation, you will issue another one-time cheque and we will have to pass another motion?

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

No.

What we did and what we calculated, I want it to be clear for everyone, for the benefit of all my colleagues who are here. If you look at the excess food inflation since COVID‑19, you see that it is about $780. So we are filling that gap, but we are aware that there will still be food inflation.

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Inflation is recurring. Prices will not go down.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

No, that is true, but—

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

You write a one-time cheque.

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

—you see that there is a difference between food inflation and general inflation. Those are two curves. It varies by food. You will agree with me that what stands out is really cocoa, sugar, what we call confectionery, pork, chicken, beef. A 50% share of inflation is related to about four foods that are part of the basket of products we use to calculate, but that ultimately just represents 10% of purchases. As an economist, you understand all that. That is why we got that.