Finance Committee on June 8th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Mr. Lavoie, you have the floor.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I just looked at the subamendment. The comments from my honourable colleague Mr. Lake have nothing to do with the subamendment when he talks about past governments.

I'd like him to stick to the subamendment, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Lavoie.

On the same point of order, I have Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

I was following his argument quite carefully—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Okay, this is turning into a debate. Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

He has talked about the effects of inflation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Mr. Kelly, this is turning into a debate. Thank you.

I have Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I was in mid-thought about the impact of those deficits. What we saw with the deficits and the significant debt taken on under Pierre Trudeau was a circumstance similar to what we're looking at right now, where the next nine years under a Conservative government.... I know that my Liberal friends, in the early days of their government, liked to shout out across the floor that the Mulroney deficits were the biggest in Canadian history at the time. It's important to point out that the Mulroney deficits during that time in government were entirely interest on the debt run up by the Trudeau government of the seventies and early eighties. They were entirely interest. Other than interest, the budgets were in balance.

The real bill didn't come due then, though. The real bill came due in 1995. Some of us are old enough to remember 1995, although perhaps not the member directly across the table from me. In 1995, those of us who were around will remember that the government of the day, with Paul Martin as finance minister—the Chrétien-Martin government of the day—because of a drop in our credit rating, had to cut by 32% what I think was called the Canada social transfer at the time. Billions and billions of dollars in one shot were cut from spending in transfers to the provinces for health care, social services and education over a two-year period, from 1995 to 1997.

I know that some on this committee share my interest in international development. Do you know what our lowest level of spending in international development was? It was in the early 2000s and was still coming out of those cuts under the Chrétien-Martin government. I think we were down to around 0.21% of ODA. Our ODA was—

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I'm sorry. I am coming back to—

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

We don't need a history lesson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Mr. Lavoie, you have the floor on the point of order.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Well, apparently you do, actually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Excuse me, folks.

Mr. Lake and Mr. MacDonald, Mr. Lavoie has the floor. Thank you.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to give my colleague the same reminder, that is, to focus on the subamendment, which is actually very specific, rather than recounting stories from the past. They have nothing to do with the subamendment.

I invite him to reread the subamendment, give the floor to another speaker who can debate it or focus on the subamendment, please.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Lavoie.

Mr. Lake, this has been a consistent theme throughout the day. I'll remind folks to stay on the topic of the subamendment.

Please continue.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I appreciate that. The honourable member asked me to reread the subamendment, so I will do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Mr. Lake, we've established a protocol here that we don't reread the subamendment once it has already been read in.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I think the member asked to have the subamendment reread in.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

As I said earlier, you can let someone else have your turn.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

He said that in his request.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What I said, Mr. Lake, is that you can give your turn to someone else and reread the subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

It has been—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Is his request is withdrawn? Is that what's happening right now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

It doesn't matter, because we have established a protocol throughout the day that we're not doing that.