Finance Committee on June 8th, 2026

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

For consistency, I would ask that you continue with your argument, stay focused and not be repetitive.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

It's interesting. Mr. MacDonald said, “We don't need a history lesson.” The entire discussion we're having today is an indication that we absolutely need a history lesson.

What we're talking about is reporting transparency. We're talking about the long-term sustainability of programs that are important to Canadians. History tells us that at times when we've run deficits like the deficits we're running today and at times when we've been in situations like the situation we're in today.... We are currently spending more on interest on the debt than we are on the Canada health transfer.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

What does debt service have to do with the chief actuary's report on the solvency of the Canada pension plan? That's what we're talking about here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

What does that have to do with this? Relevance is a legitimate point of order, as we all know.

I would like the chair to request that Mr. Lake get on topic.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I find it telling—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Give me one second, Mr. Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

Again, I will remind the member to stay focused.

Mr. Lawrence, are you raising your hand on the same point of order?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Is it going to be debate, or is it going to be a point of order?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

I believe it will be relevant to his point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Okay. I'd like to hear you out.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

He raised the issue of relevance. I will be brief, but the MCR is related directly to the macroeconomic position.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

That is debate.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

He was talking about relevance. I'm talking about relevance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

That's fine, but that's debate.

We'll allow Mr. Lake to continue.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I think it is incredibly telling that the Liberal parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Finance has just said that the fiscal situation of the country has no relevance whatsoever to the long-term sustainability of our pension plan.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a point of order.

That's not what I said, Madam Chair.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I find that absolutely astonishing. It's recorded. We're not in camera.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Both of you, please.... I have the floor right now. I'm going to ask that we not devolve into a tit-for-tat.

I would like Mr. Lake to continue with his point. We will treat everybody as honourable members. We will not go after each other personally.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I was not going after him personally. I was just responding to the comment he made.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Please carry on with your argument on the subamendment.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Leduc—Wetaskiwin, AB]

That is fair.

We're in a situation right now where the fiscal situation of the government is absolutely going to affect the long-term sustainability of programs that Canadians count on—of all programs that Canadians count on.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

It's not about that. It's about the Canada pension plan.