Evidence of meeting #51 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was measure.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Danielle Martin Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, in this committee, we often hear good ideas about new programs that could improve affordability for Canadians. However, in my opinion, we fail to focus enough on the number of families who don't receive the support that already exists and that they're entitled to. These families are unable to navigate federal or even provincial programs, for example. This includes, in particular, the work involved in filing tax returns. This work can be extremely challenging for people with very low incomes.
For many low-income Canadians, including people in my community and in all of our communities, the requirement to file a tax return in order to access federal benefits can be a real impediment, and there are all kinds of reasons that it's difficult for low-income people to do so. As a result, people do not realize that they're entitled to federal benefits. They're leaving money on the table during this affordability crunch.
Can you talk to us about how Bill C-31 will help to reach those Canadians who have difficulty, for whatever reason, in filing a tax return so that they can receive the money they are already entitled to, during this affordability crisis?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Thank you for focusing on that. The automatic benefits that we expect 5.5 million Canadians to receive is a very important issue.
I'll tell you a story, because I think members of this committee will appreciate it.
Recently, I went to a shelter in Shawinigan in my home riding, and I talked to a number of people. We were just chatting, and I asked how many of them filed a tax return. I was quite shocked, to be honest, to realize that very few of them did, and I went into the benefits that they would typically receive. This is in a region in which we have a tax centre, so we perhaps hear about these things more often than people do in other regions in the country. Our role is to adopt the best possible laws to serve Canadians, and to me, this measure is a real-life example, but in a shelter in which pretty much everyone would benefit in one way or another, most of them told me that they did not file a tax return.
Actually, this ties in with the point that you raised. If you were to ask me to identify one of the most important measures in the bill, I would say that this is certainly one of them. We believe that it will help approximately 5.5 million Canadians.
I know that you're a doctor, Ms. Martin. You have worked a great deal. You know how much, for example, the Canada groceries and essentials benefit, which will be paid out today, helps families. You have been out in the field. You have met with people. You know that these payments improve their living conditions.
I think that this is one of the key measures in Bill C‑31. I find it important to implement this measure. Many people would be eligible for certain benefits, but they don't file tax returns. I think that it's our responsibility at the Canada Revenue Agency to make an effort. This is exactly the type of effort that will help more Canadians access their benefits.
Liberal
Danielle Martin Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
As you said, when we talk about health, people often think about health care, but of course the most important determinant of health is a person's income, so the ability to access services and money that people are entitled to through federal benefits is a critical input to the health of Canadians, especially during a time like this.
Many of the people who would benefit the most are also the hardest to reach, and when you speak about the people in the shelter in your riding, they would be great examples of that. They may not have a permanent address. They may be moving around. They may not have ID. They're having difficulty getting through the day, let alone thinking about filing a tax return.
What in this bill is going to help us reach those people? How will the CRA be reaching beyond the walls of government to get those supports to Canadians?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
This is one of the measures that should have the broadest support in the House. I think every member of this House would say that they have people in their own riding who would benefit from it, because we know that filing a tax return is the gateway to benefits.
As you said, you've been a frontline doctor who has seen the possibility, and I mentioned an example, but I'm sure if everyone in this room had a chance to speak, they would probably have similar examples in which this is going to make a difference.
This is why I said that it is one of those flagship measures, and we're going to continue to work with the CRA on that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, Dr. Martin.
Next up is Mr. Garon for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, I just want to read an excerpt from the brief submitted by the Association pour la santé publique du Québec regarding your bill. It reads as follows:
The Pest Management Regulatory Agency…has been downgraded to a mere directorate within Health Canada…and its workforce is facing a 31% reduction target, amounting to 190 job cuts. These cuts seriously undermine the federal government's ability to carry out its mission of independent scientific oversight.
Do you think that this measure helps to protect the health and safety of Canadians, Minister?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
As I said, I believe that health and safety are above all else the number one priority. That said, I believe that there are ways, through regulatory relief, to achieve this goal, but also to become more efficient at reviewing the authorizations already granted.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I gather that you're telling us the following, if I may paraphrase. Resources will be cut by 31%, 190 positions will be eliminated, the minister will be given discretionary authority, some relief measures will be implemented and everyone will feel protected. That's what you're saying.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
You're trying to emphasize certain aspects.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
My point is that we can preserve the essence, meaning health and safety, while making our processes more efficient. You know, as Minister of Finance, my duty on behalf of Canadians is to try to find ways to improve efficiency. We've already identified some ways in a number of departments. I believe that the measures that we're introducing here—
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I repeat that we have equal speaking time.
You're telling us that, since your duty is to find ways to improve efficiency and protect Canadians, there isn't any conflict between the two. These cuts will eliminate 190 positions and reduce resources by 31%.
Just recently, Driscoll's products entered Canada even though they contained excessive levels of pesticides and banned pesticides. It took a whistle-blower for the media to find out about this.
When we look at this report and consider this bill, it becomes clear that, in order to feel protected, we need whistle-blowers who must contact the media anonymously.
You're telling us that you're cutting 190 jobs, but that we can trust the minister to make decisions—which may well be arbitrary—even though we've recently seen these ties to the pesticide industry. You understand that the average person, regardless of what you're telling us today, might be concerned. If what you're saying is true, you have quite a communication problem.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I would say that people back home are able to see things in perspective—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
I'm sorry, Minister. We don't have time for a response.
We'll continue now with Ms. Jansen for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Does the CRA track how often it makes mistakes, yes or no?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I don't understand the nature of your question.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Does the CRA track how often it makes mistakes, yes or no?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
As I said, I don't understand the nature.... What is a mistake? I'm a lawyer. You have to be more specific.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Okay. What is the error rate? The Auditor General has talked about it.
Liberal
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Errors, mistakes, people's.... I'm sorry. It's a simple question.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Listen, I'm trying to be constructive and provide you with the best answer, but you have to define it. What is the context? Give me context, and I will provide you—
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Does the CRA make mistakes on people's filings?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
The CRA provides services to millions of Canadians, and we strive to offer the best possible service to Canadians.
Have there been cases that we need to redress, whether—