Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I just want to make sure it's equal timing.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—has a child who benefits from early learning and child care.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Sir, when you were the industry minister, responsible for a file known as the green slush fund, the Auditor General found that $59 million went to 10 ineligible projects. The subsequent review confirmed that five ineligible projects received $34 million. The public accounts committee called on the government to recoup the money. Your government has now decided not to pursue recovery of the $34 million.

What five companies received the $34 million under your leadership that the government now says it won't recover?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I don't understand the nature of your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

That concludes the time for this round. Thank you, Ms. Jansen.

We'll continue now with Dr. Martin for five minutes.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm sharing my time with Mr. Turnbull. I'll invite him to start, and then I'll finish.

Thank you.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, to clarify and follow up on what Ms. Jansen was saying, the productivity mega deduction is an immediate expensing measure. Does it not presume that small businesses are saving money for their taxes, to be paid at the end of the year, and that in fact when they claim an immediate expense, they're essentially allowed to then spend those tax dollars on an investment in their business and get that off their taxes? Is this not the way it works, Minister?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You said it very well, sir.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Therefore, they don't need to borrow money, because they've been saving it. Unless Ms. Jansen is suggesting that Canadian businesses should not save money to pay their taxes at the end of the year—I don't think she would sit in this committee and purport to support that—small businesses would have the dollars to invest and then claim it as a deduction on their taxes.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You've said it.

In terms of the line of questioning...Canadians are watching. They know what this is about. They've seen it before. You have someone who's trying to mix a number of things to try to construct an argument. On the one hand, you have the productivity mega deduction, which has been applauded by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. I mean, it's not just me.

I'm sure Madame Jansen will go back and look at the record and see that this is the thing they've been waiting for. I'm sure she will talk to her constituents and promote that. I'm sure she will, because I know her; she would want to serve her constituents well—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Minister, every business I've spoken to has supported this.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—and make sure they understand that this is for small and medium-sized businesses.

It's a good measure. It's also been applauded by the ministers of finance of nearly all the provinces in the country. It's the kind of thing we need in this country. We should be applauding it and making sure we talk about it. I'm sure our colleague will talk about it in her riding.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I would like to go back to Ms. Martin, who shared her time.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Minister, I was just thinking about your affordability pyramid: housing, food and gas. We know, of course, that these things are also interconnected. For instance, the price of gas can affect the price of food.

When we think about affordability, these things are interconnected.

One thing I know has been hotly debated is at what price the increases in the price of gas translate into increases in the price of food. I'm curious as to whether we have mechanisms available to us at the policy level to ensure that if the price of transporting food across the country into grocery stores is shielded from rising fuel prices, our major grocers are passing on those savings to the people in your riding and mine who want to be able to afford those groceries. What measures are available to us on that front?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I want to say thank you for your question. It's a very important question. This is why, as you know, when I was Minister of Industry—a colleague mentioned that I served as Minister of Industry for a number of years—we gave more funding for the Competition Bureau. We gave new tools to make sure they could monitor this. When we provide relief to families, we want to make sure that Canadians benefit. Therefore, we've been providing the Competition Bureau with the tools.

I would say that we expanded tool box greatly. I'll give you an example. You might not have been with us in the House at the time, and I don't know if your colleague was. The example is subpoena power: Can you imagine that we had a Competition Bureau without subpoena power? At the time, to get the information—the chair will remember—the Competition Bureau needed to ask for information. If someone said, “Thanks but no thanks”, it didn't have access.

We needed to strengthen and to provide additional power. Now it is better equipped. It has a bigger tool box to discharge its obligations and to serve and protect Canadians when it comes to competition.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you.

On the price of food question, one of the reasons we're concerned about extending the suspension of the tax indefinitely is the potential for longer-term impacts, or domino impacts, in the economy. Do you feel that we are doing what we can to protect Canadians from the increasing price of food as it relates to oil and gas prices?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We're doing everything we can. First of all, we are providing targeted immediate support to families and to the whole logistics chain in the country at a time of need. When they need relief, we're there for them.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Dr. Martin and Minister.

Colleagues, we have seven and a half minutes left. I propose that we do three minutes each for the Conservatives and the Liberals and a minute and a half for the Bloc. Are we okay with that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Mr. Hallan, you have three minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, when you were the industry minister, there was a massive scandal that broke out, called the green slush fund. You gave Liberal insiders a whole lot of money for something that didn't take place.

Within this, $34 million was given to ineligible companies for projects that were ineligible for that green slush fund. Now your government is saying that it's not in the public's interest to get the money back, that $34 million of taxpayer money.

Can you tell us which five companies got the money and why you're writing them off?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First of all, I would disagree with the premise and the words you've been using. I would say that there's a number—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

That's fine, but can we get the names?