Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I know you want me to be prudent at the same time. You want me to be fiscally responsible. I think people watching at home want their Minister of Finance to be fiscally prudent, so we need to have targeted measures that are timely and are tailored to support people.

We live in a world that is very volatile and very complex. There is a lot of uncertainty, so no one can really predict what may happen. If you look at the futures even for diesel, you will see that the benchmark European diesel futures are down by 5% today. It's a volatile environment. I think you and I can agree on this.

It is smart policy to extend the suspension and make sure that we support people directly—as our colleague was saying—but also to, at the same time, be fiscally prudent because the state of the world is changing rapidly. A number of events could occur that are not within our control and that could have an influence on the price of oil and the price of diesel.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

This is why it's really important that the government controls what it can control in this situation.

Have you calculated how much industrial carbon pricing adds to the cost of producing diesel in Canada? Has your government endeavoured to study this?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

What we're doing today is really supporting people. At the same time, you would appreciate that we need to be in our fiscal framework when we're measuring the different choices we have as a government. We need to choose how we're going to support people.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Sure.

Have you measured the cost?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We focus on other affordability measures, as I mentioned, and the suite of affordability measures you can find. I was saying this to your colleague. You have to take that not in—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Have you measured the cost, though, specifically on the diesel, of the industrial carbon pricing and the impact it has?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I can tell you the cost of the measure. We have calculated the cost of the suspension as $5.3 billion—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

No, I mean the cost of the industrial carbon price on producing diesel in Canada. Have you studied the cost?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We focused on this measure. That's what I can tell you. It's the measure we focused on—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Therefore, you haven't.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—and the other measures that we have presented, which are part of a broader package of supports for families.

I'm sure you've seen it. I think your colleague, Mr. Lefebvre, wants a copy of it. I'm happy to—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

I have a final question: Would you support removing federal taxes on the production of diesel to provide further relief to Canadians, yes or no?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We're always looking at measures to support Canadians. Now we have one that is very concrete; it's time-limited but very effective to support Canadians at—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

I'd like to cede the rest of my time to my colleague.

[Eric Lefebvre]

Thank you.

When the fuel excise tax was suspended on April 20, retailers had fuel in stock for which they had already paid the tax. Overnight, they were unable to recover that in the price at the pump. Freight and fuel retailers have had to absorb hundreds of millions of dollars, and the Canada Revenue Agency has no mechanism to reimburse them.

What do you have to say to those retailers, Minister?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Please answer in 10 seconds.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm well aware of their situation, and we're looking into it.

[Eric Lefebvre]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Ms. Anstey and Mr. Lefebvre.

We're going to continue now with Mr. Sawatzky for five minutes.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for being with us today.

Our government has been working to make life more affordable for Canadians. As I'm speaking, the Canada groceries and essentials benefit payments are going out today, helping 12 million Canadians, with $170 for an individual and up to $340 for a family of four, including many in my community in New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville.

This is one of many affordability measures our government has taken, including the Canada disability benefit, the national school food program, the Canada child benefit and the Canada dental care plan.

We are also extending the suspension on the federal fuel excise tax.

Minister, can you outline exactly how much this extension of the federal fuel excise tax suspension will save Canadians at the pumps and what this could mean for Canadian families over the full period of the extension?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I think this is the measure that Canadians were waiting for. This is a very immediate measure.

We received a lot of questions from our Conservative colleagues and others today on what we could do to support people. I'm quite happy that you mentioned affordability, because it's the overarching theme. When I look at affordability—and we were talking about this with Dr. Martin—I always call it the “pyramid of affordability”. The first thing is to find a place that you can afford and is safe. There's the cost of rent. Then you go up and ask, what about the cost of food? This is something you probably find on a weekly or biweekly basis. Then there's the cost of gas.

What we've been doing is acting on three fronts. The first thing is to do generational investments in housing, because this is usually the biggest expense for families in terms of disposable income.

As for groceries, we've helped people in a very meaningful way. We're talking about more than $1,800 for a family of four. This is very significant. You just have to talk to Food Banks Canada and others. They'd say that this is a very significant measure. There are four installments. One is being paid today.

Then there is the price of gas and what you can do.

I think that at a moment like this, this is what Canadians expect from us: It's not to take one measure. You are right. I'm especially looking at you, sir, and your generation. That's why I said that colleagues are very interested in this chart, because it shows every measure we've taken.

This is one of about 10 measures. You're talking about early learning and child care. You're talking about dental care. You're talking about the Canada student loans and grants.

You have to take this measure as part of a broad set of measures that say, “We have your back.” This is a time when Canadians need the support of their government. Bill C-38 is one piece of that support.

At a time when we have higher revenue because of the price of oil, we say we're going to dedicate part of that revenue to supporting Canadians in their time of need. This is why it has been applauded in a way that people have seen across the nation. It's immediate. You don't need to file a form. You get it every time you fill your car or your truck. Also, it puts down the pressure on the prices on food and on the whole logistical chain across our nation.

It's the kind of measure that I think Canadians want to see, because it's immediate, it's targeted and it's simple. Anyone who goes to fill up their car is benefiting from this measure. That's why it received unanimous support.

I want to say thank you to the members of the House for supporting the government on that. It's the right thing to do at the right time for Canadians.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you very much.

Of course, we're dealing with all of this in the context of massive changes in the global order. On Friday, G7 countries agreed to release 100 million barrels of diesel and oil from reserves, which will no doubt have an impact on prices. Could you speak briefly to how these global changes are affecting everyday life for Canadians?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes, you're right. There was a G7 leaders' statement. Canada participated and supported the coordinated release of 100 million barrels to begin over four months, including front-loading diesel.

From our perspective, we've been in contact with Canadian refiners to make sure they maximize the diesel production capacity to meet the circumstances. Canada is a net exporter of diesel. If I compare Canada to other countries—and this is cold comfort for people when they see the price—we have been less impacted than other countries in the G7. This is why, at the same time, since we had higher revenues coming from resources, we decided to dedicate part of these revenues to support Canadians and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister. That concludes the time.

Thank you, Mr. Sawatzky.

We will continue with Mr. Garon for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a somewhat technical question about the measure. For example, we know that, in your last budget, under what you called capital investments, you included tax credits, particularly for businesses. I don't want to reopen that entire debate, but do you currently calculate this measure as a capital investment?