Evidence of meeting #56 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
They all have their own version. Obviously, there are differences from one country to another.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
This morning, La Presse reported that the solution you're proposing, namely the use of private adjudicators paid by carriers, basically amounts to putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
However, members of the Senate Standing Committee on Transport and Communications agree with that.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
That may well be, but they're not sitting in my chair.
The system is working in other parts of the world. However, as I told Mr. Leitão and as I said in my opening remarks, if the bill needs to have provisions to reassure people these firms are operating independently, that they are only registered by the government of Canada, and that airlines select them from a pre-approved list, I'm open to doing so. I'm open to incorporating provisions that would give passengers more reassurance about the neutrality of these firms, which act as adjudicators, into the bill.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Before we continue on that, members of the Senate committee who looked into this matter have trouble explaining why the proposed regulations amending the air passenger protection regulations, which were published in part I of the Canada Gazette in December 2024, were not adopted. Members of the Senate committee welcome you, Minister, to reconsider the measures in the proposed regulations as that would streamline the right of complainants to redress. I'm assuming you will be open to that too.
My question is as follows: Why not give the Canadian Transportation Agency the resources and operational capacity to handle complaints instead of creating another process, which, as senators have said, could raise conflict of interest and transparency issues?
Liberal
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
You disagree with them automatically because you imagine the experience will be what you wish it to be. You want things to go well, but a lot of people have told us they have concerns.
Why not retain the CTA, or the Canadian Transportation Agency, instead of handing this process to private adjudicators paid by carriers?
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
There are several questions there.
Why not allocate the Canadian Transportation Agency the necessary funding? Because I was not satisfied that the backlog, which is also a matter of consumer protection, could be brought under control.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
We would not be in this position had you adopted the regulations in 2024. That's inferred from the comments made by senators from the Senate committee.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
I completely disagree with their opinion on that. I wanted to create a system that will also work in a timely manner to protect consumers and travellers. I was not satisfied about the cost or that the agency could potentially eliminate this backlog. That's why we looked at alternatives to this system.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
So what standards will the airline adjudicator meet to ensure proper governance without conflicts of interest and with full transparency?
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
They will be set out in the regulations and we will be consulting the general public, passengers, consumer protection organizations, airlines and, of course, industry on these regulations to ensure the transparency, timeliness and efficiency of a new, less complex system that we hope will address disputes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Thériault. The time for this round of questions is up.
We will now continue with Mr. Lefebvre for five minutes.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska—des-Sources, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, thank you for appearing before the Standing Committee on Finance.
I also want to say hello to all my colleagues.
Minister, I'm happy to hear you talk about transparency. I'd like to ask you a simple question: Are you familiar with the land that Maritime Launch Services leases from the Nova Scotia provincial government and then subleases to the Canadian federal government? Are you familiar with that file?
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
I've heard about it in the House of Commons on a couple of occasions, but I don't know the details. That's not within my department's purview. I might have heard about it from you, Mr. Lefebvre.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska—des-Sources, QC
That's possible, because the file is close to my heart. The company leases land for $13,500 and then subleases it for $20 million. I think the cabinet should look into that. Ultimately, $200 million that belongs to Canadians will be spent. I've tried to find out who signed the contract and who read it, but I've not managed to get an answer. That's why I asked you if you're familiar with the file.
That said, Minister, Bill C‑31 covers amendments to the Canada Labour Code to protect the rights of workers. One file that is close to my heart when it comes to transportation relates to what is happening with the Driver Inc. model. In March 2025, Jacques Dulude, president of AGD Verchères Express in Quebec, reported that he had lost three Canada Post contracts to a company that makes use of the Driver Inc. scheme. That's unfair competition.
How far has this file in relation to Canada Post gone? Have you done any verifications with companies that operate under the Driver Inc. model that won these contracts?
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Of course. I was previously the Minister of Transport. I launched the process and was quite pleased to see it come to the point where information is shared between the labour program and the Canada Revenue Agency when it comes to random verifications. We also removed the exemption introduced by the previous government—and I don't mean to be partisan here—concerning reviews and processing these companies' verifications. We removed that. These two measures, fiscal and non-fiscal, are very important in deterring the establishment of these types of companies.
Additionally, the labour program carried out inspection blitzes. People in the trucking industry can corroborate this if you ask them.
Some of these measures fall under provincial departments of transport. I discussed this issue, this scourge of people who don't comply with the same labour standards and the highway code, with provincial ministers; however, I'm not in charge of highway inspectors. Quebec's department of transport is responsible, and so I asked my colleagues, my provincial counterparts, to intensify efforts to carry out random inspections, do the necessary work to verify—
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
—these drivers' licences.
We must reassure people that road safety always comes first, both in our approach and in our regulations.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska—des-Sources, QC
Thank you, Minister.
So you are telling me that tomorrow, if I talk to Groupe Robert, Groupe Morneau, Guilbault and Transport Hervé Lemieux, who met with you in October 2024 to discuss the impacts of the Driver Inc. model, they will say they are satisfied with what is going on with respect to the targeted inspections currently being conducted on highways.