Finance Committee on Oct. 26th, 2026

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

No. The agency will continue to manage, more or less, the real-time process. We'll take the backlog away from them. The real-time process will...because they will still be operating under the old rule until we have a new rule.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay. I must have misread. I thought you were being transferred the responsibility for this process.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I am. That is correct. There's a bit of a transition measure here. The first transition—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

The transition says that you can delegate to them, but now you are responsible. Effectively, the people who were handling this before are probably going to switch from where they were before over to working for the ministry, as opposed to the agency. Is that correct?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

No. They will stay as, if you will, delegates of the Minister of Transport and continue to work in the current system until the new regulations have gone through the gazetting, consultation processes, etc.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay. You also are supposed to mediate, but only if the parties consent. That means you won't be mediating if either of the parties says they don't want to mediate. Is that correct?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Well, that's the essence of dispute resolution—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

There's going to continue to be a backlog as far as customer complaints are concerned.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

We think we can eliminate that backlog in a pretty reasonable period of time.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

All right.

You're upping the fine here to $1 million from $250,000, which was part of the legislation but not part of the regulations back in 2023. Was there ever a fine delivered? There was never a fine for $250,000. What was the maximum fine that was actually delivered against the carriers here?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

We can look that up.

As you know, levying administrative monetary penalties is an independent process, one that I don't get involved in. It's based on a fact-seeking, evidence-gathering process. Then the CTA comes up with the amount that it, within the powers that Parliament has granted it—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

If you could, Mr. Minister—

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I will happily provide you—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Yes. Can you lay out a scenario where a carrier is going to receive a $1-million fine in this process?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

In my view, again, without prejudice to the independence of the CTA, a $1-million fine would be a very serious infraction, probably one that results from repeated abuses.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay.

I know that you've also looked at privatizing the operatorship of these airports. If you think about when these complaints come due, there's going to be more money owed in this respect, because the operatorship right now is with non-profit agencies. If you're moving the operatorship to for-profit agencies, they are, by definition, going to have to increase the price.

The money's going to have to go up. Therefore, the claims are going to be higher. Let's say 10% higher. There's a 10% margin here. That 10% margin is going to inflate the cost of travel. How do you think that's going to impact inflation across the country if you inflate the cost of travel by 10%?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

First, I see no correlation between complaints under the air passenger protection regulations and the operating model of an airport. I think they are two very distinct things.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I think the correlation is that the amount of money that's going to have to be claimed is going to go up by.... Let's call that profit margin 10%.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

The money that is claimed comes from the airlines, not from the airports.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

The fees are going to go up because their costs are going to go up because the operatorship is going to go up because of the rents at the airport.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

The airlines currently live under the air passenger protection regulations, and the settlements are borne by the airlines. However, none of that is correlated—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

We will agree that the new operatorship is going to increase costs.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

No, I don't agree with that. I think that the concession model we've chosen for airports.... Canadians have developed—some even say “perfected”—a discipline of running airports. We have Canadians all over the world running major airports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. McLean.

We are now going to continue with Mr. Lavoie for five minutes.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. MacKinnon.

As you know, the committee takes a keen interest in all airport matters. For me, it's important to have an airport in Quebec City, the largest region in Quebec, in eastern Quebec. As you know, airline choices are often limited in Quebec City. We're glad to see airlines operating there, but we don't have the same choices available in major centres.

Today, we're reflecting on what has been happening with airlines. There are significant delays. That's where we are now. As the saying goes, someone dropped the ball somewhere to produce such a backlog. I belong to the school of thought that believes in moving forward, looking for solutions.

I've listened to you from the beginning. You have clearly set out your vision, your commitment to address the situation and streamline and strengthen processes, and I commend that. I often hear you say that users and passengers should be at the centre of priorities and that airlines will bear the costs. There will be fines. Independent firms will have to meet a set of criteria.

I'm starting to know you, Minister. I've been here for a year and a half. When you decide to move forward, you follow through. I have confidence in you, and you inspire that confidence.

My question is as follows: Once all this, that is the processes, the firms, the legislation, and so forth, has been established, what will the mechanism look like?

I'm thinking about ordinary Canadians at home today who are wondering, once this comes into force, what mechanisms will be in place to make sure things are working? By mechanism, I mean that sometimes there are warning signals, such as the red, yellow and green indicators on a dashboard. Yellow signals a move away from green, and we need to act before it turns red. We don't want to be back here in three, four or five years facing another backlog of complaints under this process.

Whether through a dashboard or other mechanisms, how will progress be tracked to ensure the current backlog is cleared and the problem does not recur in a few years?